HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Aug 31, 2013 22:54:52 GMT -5
How many people besides me are opposed to any U.S. involvement in Syria? I'm not interested in creating a poll. I'm simply curious.
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Post by redlock on Sept 1, 2013 0:22:57 GMT -5
I'm not convinced we need to be involved.
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Post by Venter on Sept 1, 2013 8:58:07 GMT -5
Without knowing all of the particulars, unless they dropped a bomb on us, leave them alone.
If they drop a bomb on us, how hard will it be to extract oil from under several feet of glass - once we nuke them?
Let's face it, USA could give two shits if it weren't about oil.
If we put as much money into Wind, Water, Solar, and Nuclear Power as we do protecting our oil interests, then maybe we'd let others fight out their Civil Wars.
Actually, if we stop buying their oil, they'd have less reason to be fighting amongst themselves.
If there was no value in their product, they wouldn't be playing king-of-the-hill and killing each other off.
Same thing with drug cartels and the value of their products.
But, we don't get as involved in the drug cartel issues, because we don't NEED their products.
But, when it comes to an Oil Bearing Country, we feel this need to get involved.
(Remember when we were "concerned about those Asians" because of the "Opium Trade"!? )
It's always been because of the OIL
I guess if WE didn't get involved, we're afraid that China would?
Then they'd get all the oil... and that day is coming upon us faster than we want to realize.
While we waste all of our resources, China is just waiting us out.
This isn't my doomsday prophecy, just conjecture.
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 1, 2013 10:12:00 GMT -5
I am against any type of military action in Syria and also angered by the corner our president has seemingly painted us into because of his stupid red line comment. In my opinion Congress should vote "Mr. Obama, it's your call" and put him squarely on the hook for his stupidity.
Of course it's all about OIL Venter. Agree 100%. Let's get the Keystone Pipeline going.
I think that the deaths of innocent men, women and children is appalling, and morally reprehensible. However, we are dealing with a culture who has no regard for women and children, and a culture who is not willing to stand up against these types of atrocities. These chemical attacks are solely a reason to keep the masses under control. US intervention is not wanted or welcomed. For the most part these people don't know any better and know no other way of life. It's not our country's job to be the savior. In my opinion attacks will do nothing to deter the Assad regime. We are trying to play by rules of war for a country who has no regard for rules of war. Also, in my opinion, whether we attack or not will do nothing to deter what I think will be another attempt to attack the US because of our president's comments on the matter. I think he crossed the red line as well.
Let the rest of the world sort out this mess. Let's work on solving our problems here for a change.
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 1, 2013 18:45:17 GMT -5
I am 100% against doing anything without the support of the rest of the world. I am disappointed in Obamas statement months ago about the line in the sand. That put us in a bad spot and is making us look bad. That said, the Arab league is now coming around and is wanting something done. Perhaps the U.N. will come around. I still question whether it was actually the Syrian government that did it. I can see the rebels doing it OR even doing it to set up the current regime. I'd like that to be settled and if it is known by the world that the government did it I'd like to see a resolution about joint action. If the Russians veto that they will look bad and then I would support taking action. Whew!
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 2, 2013 6:30:09 GMT -5
I would say we should only get involved if we are a part of a United Nations action, and even then I’m not sure. Past experience tells me that we will end up being the major financer of such an operation and our taxpayers will be footing the bill.
We are not and should not be the police force for the world.
We need to look out for our own people. We have homeless, hungry and jobless people in this country, and we need to look out for them before we worry about other countries.
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Sept 2, 2013 21:31:44 GMT -5
I agree with all that has been said. There was a time when the bleeding heart in me would have wanted to save the world. The bleeding has stopped and all I want is to see the U.S. become the country it once was and should be again. We keep giving money away but no one wants to help us out in times of trouble. Foreign aid should end, the sooner the better.
The United Nations doesn't want a part of this and we know what Great Britain and France think. We also know that the Russians oppose anything Obama says. His line in the sand remark was way out of line.
I read somewhere (and my memory can be faulty) that the U.S. is the number three oil producer in the world. We export our oil to Canada, China, etc. Why in the world do we export our oil and buy oil from countries that hate us?
Feed and shelter our vets. Give them - yes GIVE them the jobs, homes, medical treatment and respect they've earned and they deserve. Feed and shelter our citizens and let the rest fend for themselves. I've become cold toward helping other countries. I never anticipated that but I guess all these years of war have numbed me.
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Sept 3, 2013 7:37:24 GMT -5
I'm 100% opposed, too. I was one of the folks who supported overthrowing the iraqi and afghanistan govts because we thought back then they would want a democratically elected govt that wasn't so corrupt. I don't think those govts will last forever, esp. in afghanistan, and egypt and libya being taken over by islamists isn't a rousing endorsement for support there.
I'd be willing to bet a replacement government in syria would be worse than the current one. It'd probably be one that forced women to cover up from head to toe and banned them from going to school or something.
And I'm tired of hearing John McCain make claims that we need to be warhawks in every single situation. Him calling the syria issue "a threat to our national security" is ridiculous. And at the same time, I was counting on obama (though I didn't vote for him) to be smart enough to keep us out of these things. The fact that he's pushing for this unilaterally when we've seen how big of a failure our efforts have been in the last 10 years is ridiculous.
Save the money for problems we have at home (like you say, we're going to have a vet issue for a long time because of all of this - take care of the vets).
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 3, 2013 9:17:17 GMT -5
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Sept 3, 2013 14:23:40 GMT -5
I supported the Afghanistan action but never supported the invasion of Iraq. Sadly, we all should have known - since we helped the mujahideen run Russia out of Afghanistan - that going after bin Laden and his supporters was a losing proposition.
Our government is so screwed up that we have no business deciding how other countries should be run. McCain has vacillated so much on the subject of aid to Egypt and Syria that I don't think he knows what he believes. And to think that I would have voted for him had he chosen someone other than Palin as his running mate. Oh my.
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Sept 3, 2013 14:27:56 GMT -5
I'm most certainly no fan of Putin but he made more sense in this clip than Obama has made in recent reports. |
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 5, 2013 18:58:05 GMT -5
The videos that exist of the butchery of the rebels has me wondering why in the world we would support them. This is two armies of barbarians killing each other. I say have it! We should fan the flames and keep this going. Some of you will laugh at this. Sarah's quote of letting Allah sort it out is priceless and I think completely correct. I am really confounded by the rest of the worlds lack of support for action to be taken. I feel we are being mislead and that it is a big question about who really did the gassing. I am no Obama fan as most of you know and am finding his hedging about the red line comments absolutely embaracing and as unpresidential as you can get. I am pro pot and I am OK with gay marriage so am pretty lost politically right now but i do know this. This Syria thing is a clusterfuck and we are best staying away from it.
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 5, 2013 19:48:13 GMT -5
The videos that exist of the butchery of the rebels has me wondering why in the world we would support them. This is two armies of barbarians killing each other. I say have it! We should fan the flames and keep this going. Some of you will laugh at this. Sarah's quote of letting Allah sort it out is priceless and I think completely correct. I am really confounded by the rest of the worlds lack of support for action to be taken. I feel we are being mislead and that it is a big question about who really did the gassing. I am no Obama fan as most of you know and am finding his hedging about the red line comments absolutely embaracing and as unpresidential as you can get. I am pro pot and I am OK with gay marriage so am pretty lost politically right now but i do know this. This Syria thing is a clusterfuck and we are best staying away from it. You don't sound lost at all. |
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Post by Alex Oreilly on Sept 5, 2013 20:14:24 GMT -5
Sidenote: Where do you think Syria got their gas/weapons of mass destruction from, answer Iraq and I'm sure Russia helped to but mostly from Iraq.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 5, 2013 20:31:26 GMT -5
Sidenote: Where do you think Syria got their gas/weapons of mass destruction from, answer Iraq and I'm sure Russia helped to but mostly from Iraq. And while we are at it, how much of it may have started out here in the U.S. and ended up there after passing through three or four other countries? |
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 5, 2013 21:02:34 GMT -5
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Sept 8, 2013 12:21:06 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of those people from Iraq to Iran to Syria to Egypt to Afghanistan. They think nothing of using car bombs and killing everyone in sight including women and children. But let one American soldier freak out and kill women, old men and children they go bonkers.
They've done vile things to the bodies of Americans - anyone remember the contractor's burned and mutilated bodies hanging from a bridge some years ago in Iraq? Let a couple of Americans take a leak on a few bodies and they go bonkers. To hell with all of them. Let them kill each other and reinforce protection for America and American citizens.
Nile, regarding the clip you provided: give the rebel who pulled the trigger a little credit - he went back and gave the coup de grace to the ones he didn't kill the first time around.
If I seem horrible to you, I'm sorry. I'm tired of watching the news or reading the news and crying about the death and destruction. If they want to die let them die, but at their own hands, not at the hands of Americans.
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 9, 2013 14:50:55 GMT -5
Support is slowly coming around. The Arab League and the European union are now for doing something. I say try and push it through the UN and if Russia stops it it will look bad for them. Obama needs to pretend the russians are Republicans and that he needs to play politics which he is adept at. If we are 100% sure the Syrians did do it to their own people we need to get the UN to approve action, and if not, get an alliance of the willing going and have at it. Everyone better "pay their fair share" though. No free rides. Help out or shut up. I still find it more believable that the nutty rebels did this to set up the Syrian government than the government did this.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 9, 2013 15:52:00 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of those people from Iraq to Iran to Syria to Egypt to Afghanistan. They think nothing of using car bombs and killing everyone in sight including women and children. But let one American soldier freak out and kill women, old men and children they go bonkers. They've done vile things to the bodies of Americans - anyone remember the contractor's burned and mutilated bodies hanging from a bridge some years ago in Iraq? Let a couple of Americans take a leak on a few bodies and they go bonkers. To hell with all of them. Let them kill each other and reinforce protection for America and American citizens. Nile, regarding the clip you provided: give the rebel who pulled the trigger a little credit - he went back and gave the coup de grace to the ones he didn't kill the first time around. If I seem horrible to you, I'm sorry. I'm tired of watching the news or reading the news and crying about the death and destruction. If they want to die let them die, but at their own hands, not at the hands of Americans. HB, I agree with you on so many things in this post. Everyone wants the US to help them with their problems, or to help them with their neighbors problems, or to get involved in something. When we don't we are talked about and blamed for the problems. When we do and things don't go right, or we do something they don't approve of, then we are again blamed for things. Once again, I say let's look out for our people here in this country first. Then, when and if we have time and money get involved in the problems in other countries. How much money do you think we would save if we didn't get involved in the problems of other countries all over the world? |
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Sept 9, 2013 20:09:49 GMT -5
I'm sick of all of those people from Iraq to Iran to Syria to Egypt to Afghanistan. They think nothing of using car bombs and killing everyone in sight including women and children. But let one American soldier freak out and kill women, old men and children they go bonkers. They've done vile things to the bodies of Americans - anyone remember the contractor's burned and mutilated bodies hanging from a bridge some years ago in Iraq? Let a couple of Americans take a leak on a few bodies and they go bonkers. To hell with all of them. Let them kill each other and reinforce protection for America and American citizens. Nile, regarding the clip you provided: give the rebel who pulled the trigger a little credit - he went back and gave the coup de grace to the ones he didn't kill the first time around. If I seem horrible to you, I'm sorry. I'm tired of watching the news or reading the news and crying about the death and destruction. If they want to die let them die, but at their own hands, not at the hands of Americans. HB, I agree with you on so many things in this post. Everyone wants the US to help them with their problems, or to help them with their neighbors problems, or to get involved in something. When we don't we are talked about and blamed for the problems. When we do and things don't go right, or we do something they don't approve of, then we are again blamed for things. Once again, I say let's look out for our people here in this country first. Then, when and if we have time and money get involved in the problems in other countries. How much money do you think we would save if we didn't get involved in the problems of other countries all over the world? FMB, we could save enough money to ensure that every returning veteran receives medical treatment, psychological counseling if needed, prosthetics to improve their quality of living, housing, jobs, home care if they need it. In short, more support from their government in addition to the support other vets try to provide. Change the law too and include Vietnam vets in the stipend for family members to provide care. I think the family receives $2,000.00 a month to care for family members at home. Vietnam vets were cut out of that funding. They still need help. When we have a disaster no one comes to help us. No help for hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, fires, attacks from lunatic Muslims. But whenever there's a disaster in another country our government is quick to send money and aid. It's about time European countries pay back war loans rather than continuing to receive aid. I used to call tsunamis and hurricanes, famine and floods in other countries Mother Nature's birth control. Maybe I was right and it's time we allow nature to take its course. |
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 9, 2013 20:24:39 GMT -5
I'm sick to death of John Kerry schooling me on how much of an atrocity this is and how we can't just sit back and do nothing. The fact is doesn't matter to me who gassed those innocent civilians. The fact is they will continue to do it no matter whether we intervene or not. We should focus on our problems here at home and let the chips fall where they may in Syria.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 10, 2013 5:18:34 GMT -5
I'm sure others may have seen this, but it is from a friend's facebook page.
I have an excellent idea. Instead of sending missiles to Syria, (which will actually do no good at all since they have been fighting each other for thousands of years) lets send a peace keeping delegation to Syria comprised of the 435 members of the House of Representative, the 100 members of the Senate, the President, Vice-President and the 15 cabinet members. That should straighten everything out in the Middle East. (Not to mention how much it would help things here in the United States.) Just a thought, may not work at all.
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 10, 2013 18:57:37 GMT -5
I actually like the Russian proposed solution. Our goal should be to make sure these do not get used again and this solution is the shit. Dropping a few punitive bombs/missles at this point would be done for no other reason than to save face due to the red line crap.
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Post by Venter on Sept 11, 2013 8:32:22 GMT -5
I actually like the Russian proposed solution. Out goal should be to make sure these do not et used again and this solution is the shit. Dropping a few punitive bombs/missles at this point would be done for no other reason than to save face due to the red lint crap. Makes it seem so... insignificant when you put it like that  Just a bunch of Santa's belly button lint. |
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 11, 2013 14:50:20 GMT -5
Fixed it. I need to stop posting and drinking. Well, that would have prevented this post so I will start that tomorrow!
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