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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 16:11:29 GMT -5
I kept seeing this stuff on facebook about cyber bullying and people talking about it. I finally clicked on the like this afternoon and read this article. I was a bit shocked that this hasn't hit BV yet as I saw that several BV'ers had been commenting on the article. I find this more than a bit creepy and hope that this asshole isn't allowed to serve in this type of position any more. However the one thing I find strange is that while the mother (rightfully so) is focusing on the guy who too the picture she isn't also going after the people who apparently made the comments on FB about her daughter's sexuality and other comments. www.eveningsun.com/news/ci_22639474/emmitsburg-woman-upset-after-man-posts-daughters-photo
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Post by Venter on Feb 22, 2013 17:05:23 GMT -5
I feel sorry for all of those involved. Since we don't know the nature of the photos, we can only conjecture.
If the photos were taken and posted in the same manner as other Emergency Service images, then I would imagine that they were taken for a record of sorts. We've all seen photos by firefighters that show a particular fire or emergency. If it was taken with education or information in mind, then maybe it was just a poor decision to place it on a public Facebook Page.
If it was taken just to be cruel and poking fun at the kid, or the family, then it would be sad at least, and criminal at most.
I didn't see the Post, and if one of you has, I would NOT like to see it posted here - regardless of its intentions.
Naming names, and continuing dialogue by the mother, are possibly more cruel than the original posting on Facebook. People are sometimes nasty, and the anonymity of the internet makes them say things that they would not normally say in public. I'm posting the article so it doesn't disappear:
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 17:21:42 GMT -5
I feel sorry for all of those involved. Since we don't know the nature of the photos, we can only conjecture. If the photos were taken and posted in the same manner as other Emergency Service images, then I would imagine that they were taken for a record of sorts. We've all seen photos by firefighters that show a particular fire or emergency. If it was taken with education or information in mind, then maybe it was just a poor decision to place it on a public Facebook Page. If it was taken just to be cruel and poking fun at the kid, or the family, then it would be sad at least, and criminal at most. I didn't see the Post, and if one of you has, I would NOT like to see it posted here - regardless of its intentions. Naming names, and continuing dialogue by the mother, are possibly more cruel than the original posting on Facebook. People are sometimes nasty, and the anonymity of the internet makes them say things that they would not normally say in public. I'm posting the article so it doesn't disappear: I've spent the last hour looking into this further and this is the original statement the mother came out with when she created the cyberbully FB page. 02/16/2013 Saturday!Today my heart was crushed and everything a parent could feel, I felt as my child became the center of cyber - bullying. A day of being at urgent care became a nightmare as I received a message from a friend telling me pictures of Jayden, my five year old daughter had been taken while we were at urgent care and posted on Facebook by a complete stranger! A man and his wife came in and we helped them get registered because everything is computerized and there is no receptionist and they were unable to figure it out! They sat across from us and this strange man took pictures of her. This man who is a firefighter/ EMT and vice president of a volunteer company in his home town took those pictures of her and posted them on Face Book referring to her as being an “It”, made fun of the way she was dressed by posting pictures of her shoes! He took another picture of her and labeled You be the judge…Boy or girl??!!His status update read as follows: Sitting at Urgent Care in Gettysburg. There is a child who could be described as Androgynous.. “It” looks like a boy but is wearing a pink/purple striped shirt…I am not sure what I am looking at…LOL! He ridiculed ,degraded, and totally made my five year old the center of his ignorance! I am so mad I can't think straight. As a public figure I can't believe a man of his stature who represents his fire and rescue company could make my five year old a center of public humility! I teach my kids to respect people like him and to look up to them as a person who could some day save their lives or lose their life trying too! I'm quite appalled that this piece of crap is in the brotherhood of fire and rescue! I have reported him to Face Book and I hope they investigate him! Truly I'm so lost for words I don't know what else to say other than "You can mess with momma bear but don't mess with my baby cubs." I am so hurt and so devastated that this happened to my baby I just can't get it together! I understand people are ignorant , rude, whatever but she is an innocent five year old who was just being a typical kid playing with her I POD laying on some chairs waiting patiently for her brother to get the care he needed!
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 17:32:50 GMT -5
I feel sorry for all of those involved. Since we don't know the nature of the photos, we can only conjecture. If the photos were taken and posted in the same manner as other Emergency Service images, then I would imagine that they were taken for a record of sorts. We've all seen photos by firefighters that show a particular fire or emergency. If it was taken with education or information in mind, then maybe it was just a poor decision to place it on a public Facebook Page. If it was taken just to be cruel and poking fun at the kid, or the family, then it would be sad at least, and criminal at most. I didn't see the Post, and if one of you has, I would NOT like to see it posted here - regardless of its intentions. Naming names, and continuing dialogue by the mother, are possibly more cruel than the original posting on Facebook. People are sometimes nasty, and the anonymity of the Internet makes them say things that they would not normally say in public. Venter, Just a few points 1. WHY does a volunteer fireman need to take pictures of a sick child in a doctors office and post it to his personal FB page as "educational" as well I think saying "MAYBE" it was poor judgment to post it to his FB page is a bit of an understatement. There is zero, zip zilch reason for any fireman especially a volunteer to be posting pics of any incident they go to on their personal FB page. For that matter they don't need to even take personal pictures at all. It's not what they are there for. If there is a need for educational pictures to be taken it should be done by a professional for professional and educational reasons only. They are not volunteer fireman to go see "cool" wrecks or fires and post wow look at this pictures on social media. They are there to protect and serve PERIOD! There is no good reason for them to ever need to post stuff like that on personal social media pages. There is a professional photographer in this county who specializes in this type of work. 2. I have not been able to find any where, where the mother has called this person any names. In fact on her page it says that rude comments will be taken down. If this were my kid I would be equally as furious and my actions probably would have been allot worse than making a facebook page against cyber bullying. 3. Just because it is legal to do something doesn't make it right. 4. I don't get why it shouldn't be okay for this woman to tell people this mans name. If it was okay for him to take her picture and post it on facebook, why is it wrong for her to embarrass him in the same.
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Post by Venter on Feb 22, 2013 19:07:39 GMT -5
Spellchecker, You are right, and I was just guessing as to the reason he took and posted the photos.
I had assumed (always a bad idea) that since he was Emergency Personnel, he had a medical, or emergency for taking the pictures. Otherwise, the mere fact that he is firefighter and EMT was a way to sensationalize the story.
If he was a Sewer Worker, or Construction Worker, or worked at WalMart or McDonald's, his job would have probably remained unknown. But, as an Emergency Responder, or a Priest, or a Doctor, we seem to weigh this episode with a sense of outrage that will probably see this man lose his career over this.
It was stupid, it was immature, and it was uncalled for - but is this worth losing a life? I guess we are becoming a world where Honey Boo Boo and that sort of train-wreck has become a sort of "accepted norm". I'm not apologizing for the deeds of this particular man, nor do I condone that type of behavior and stupidity. What I think I am trying to say, is that this is NOT out of the modern-day norm of taking stupid, insensitive photos, and posting them to Social Media.
Cyber-Bullying? No. Fucking Stupid and Insensitive for someone, especially in his "position"? Absolutely! Illegal? Probably not, other than the fact that a photo of an underage person was posted without parental approval - but that would probably include MOST of the Photos online today.
You know, if I were to see someone that was out of the ordinary, I would probably make some sort of remark to the person with me - it's human nature, maybe it's not nice, but let those of you who have never pointed out something strange, throw the first stone!
The difference between his behavior, and most other people, is that we have common sense and restraint on our side - and that would prevent MOST of us from snapping a photo.
It's not acceptable behavior, but it's a obviously a sign of our times. Airing this "dirty laundry" is NOT the proper way to deal with it though, and in that sense, two wrongs will not make this right.
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Post by comeheroften on Feb 22, 2013 19:13:36 GMT -5
The guy who posted these pictures is obviously just another example of the mediocrity that pervades our local area. How could this man think, by any stretch of his imagination, that it is acceptable to ridicule a fellow human being this way (and a child no less). The whole thing just makes me sick. One word comes to mind - Jerk.
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 19:28:03 GMT -5
Venter I do think that he should removed from his volunteer position. I also think that being a volunteer fireman is hardly a career. I also find it laughable that people find it attroucious that his name be printed and him exposed. I mean shit how dare he be embarrassed right? I actually think him having his name thrown out there the perfect punishment. IMO its way better than say 6 months probation or community service.
I have to wonder center how u would feel if this were ur child.
I am as quilty as the next of snickering at group of teens in the mall with 6 inch holes in their ears and skinny jeans but the differnce is they made the choice to dress up like a reject and go into public this little girl probably doesn't even pick out her own clothes by looks of her age. Besides that she appeared to be a normal looking pre teen.
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Post by lifesaver on Feb 22, 2013 19:43:35 GMT -5
I agree with Venter. It was a bonehead move. It was insensitive. No different, however, than those who post pictures on "People of Walmart". I think if it were my child I would have dealt with it on a more personal level, if you get my drift. In another sense I think the mother's public reaction is equally as bonehead and insensitive. Nobody should be feeding this story anymore, in my opinion. It's not cyber bullying. You have to wonder about the common sense of some people who feel the need to post their drama on Facebook.
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Post by Venter on Feb 22, 2013 19:49:25 GMT -5
If it were my child, I would most likely go after the guy through FaceBook and possibly through the Court System. I would hope that I would be refrained enough to forgo any other contact.
BUT... I would also need to consider how much the extra publicity would expose my child in an even MORE negative way. Picture Posted, Picture removed, Person dealt with... not pointing it out and asking people to have a public lynching - and CERTAINLY NOT Identifying my OWN Child in the press to "make things better".
Chances are that this would have been a non-issue (publicly) if it hadn't blown into a media frenzy.
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Post by paulkellett on Feb 22, 2013 20:49:22 GMT -5
Venter, disagree to the max, my friend. The first amendment protects this guy from legal prosecution, so only a society that does not tolerate such nonsense and publicly calls out bad behavior do we not slip into a crevasse of stupid sick communication that leaves us all felling disgusted. I do not think that his firefighting or anything else should be in jeopardy over this, just his ability to show his face in public having done something so morally reprehensible. You are of course correct that everyone makes jokes but decent folks are mortified if the brunt of their joke gets word of it. I do not know a soul that feels taunting a 5 year old, even behind her back is acceptable behavior for any one over the age of 6. Civility demands that we not sweep such crap under the rug.
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Feb 22, 2013 20:57:44 GMT -5
What occurred was not cyber-bullying. It was stupidity. The mother made an issue of the situation when it should have been handled privately. What he did was not illegal. If so, Many of the videos on You Tube are illegal too.
How many of you have seen the video of the woman texting and walking and then falling into the pool of water in a mall? You laughed if you saw it, didn't you? Did you think about how she felt being filmed without permission?
When other children hear their parents speaking of this situation it will become worse and it will spread to other children. Then the real bullying will begin. Even kids who have no idea what prompted this will chime in.
Now the mother is encouraging people to e-mail his fire department to complain about the situation. They have nothing to do with this and they should not be involved in any way. AND, he should not lose his job for being stupid.
I was one of the the BV'ers Spellchecker mentioned and I don't apologize for a word I said about the mother. She's excited that one television station wants to speak with her and I'm sure that she's ready for the national news too.
Shame on her for exposing a five year old child to all of this notoriety. Because of her mother being over-zealous in punishing someone who offended her, that little girl is going to suffer; if not now, later. The mother made sure to post a picture of her daughter. She put the child out there for everyone to see. He removed the offending pictures.
This should have been a non-issue but the mother wanted more.
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Post by comeheroften on Feb 22, 2013 21:00:40 GMT -5
Venter, disagree to the max, my friend. The first amendment protects this guy from legal prosecution, so only a society that does not tolerate such nonsense and publicly calls out bad behavior do we not slip into a crevasse of stupid sick communication that leaves us all felling disgusted. I do not think that his firefighting or anything else should be in jeopardy over this, just his ability to show his face in public having done something so morally reprehensible. You are of course correct that everyone makes jokes but decent folks are mortified if the brunt of their joke gets word of it. I do not know a soul that feels taunting a 5 year old, even behind her back is acceptable behavior for any one over the age of 6. Civility demands that we not sweep such crap under the rug. Here, here Mr. Kellett
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Feb 22, 2013 21:08:42 GMT -5
Venter, disagree to the max, my friend. The first amendment protects this guy from legal prosecution, so only a society that does not tolerate such nonsense and publicly calls out bad behavior do we not slip into a crevasse of stupid sick communication that leaves us all felling disgusted. I do not think that his firefighting or anything else should be in jeopardy over this, just his ability to show his face in public having done something so morally reprehensible. You are of course correct that everyone makes jokes but decent folks are mortified if the brunt of their joke gets word of it. I do not know a soul that feels taunting a 5 year old, even behind her back is acceptable behavior for any one over the age of 6. Civility demands that we not sweep such crap under the rug. Here, here Mr. Kellett If the mother hadn't made such a production how many of us would have comments regarding the situation? How many people would have known what was said by the man and his friends? It could have ended the day it began. Sometimes silence is golden.
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Post by lifesaver on Feb 22, 2013 21:10:05 GMT -5
What occurred was not cyber-bullying. It was stupidity. The mother made an issue of the situation when it should have been handled privately. This should have been a non-issue but the mother wanted more. Bingo.
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Post by getysbg on Feb 22, 2013 21:58:33 GMT -5
Venter, disagree to the max, my friend. The first amendment protects this guy from legal prosecution, so only a society that does not tolerate such nonsense and publicly calls out bad behavior do we not slip into a crevasse of stupid sick communication that leaves us all felling disgusted. I do not think that his firefighting or anything else should be in jeopardy over this, just his ability to show his face in public having done something so morally reprehensible. You are of course correct that everyone makes jokes but decent folks are mortified if the brunt of their joke gets word of it. I do not know a soul that feels taunting a 5 year old, even behind her back is acceptable behavior for any one over the age of 6. Civility demands that we not sweep such crap under the rug. One way to stop incidents such as these from happening is to impress upon these cowards that they will be called on their actions immediately and press the issue that they are not fit for society. If enough cowards are called to task for their transgressions, others will see that the consequences of their actions are just not worth it. And by the way, I don't need an immature EMT/firefighter coming to my aid. He needs to be drummed out.
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Post by getysbg on Feb 22, 2013 22:01:05 GMT -5
If the mother hadn't made such a production how many of us would have comments regarding the situation? How many people would have known what was said by the man and his friends? It could have ended the day it began. Sometimes silence is golden. Yes, it would have ended, and the coward would have thought that what he did was OK. Evil, stupidity and cowardice need to be smacked down at all times.
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 22:03:11 GMT -5
Sometimes silence is golden. LOL why should the mother have remained silent?
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 22:11:08 GMT -5
If it were my child, I would most likely go after the guy through FaceBook and possibly through the Court System. I would hope that I would be refrained enough to forgo any other contact. BUT... I would also need to consider how much the extra publicity would expose my child in an even MORE negative way. Picture Posted, Picture removed, Person dealt with... not pointing it out and asking people to have a public lynching - and CERTAINLY NOT Identifying my OWN Child in the press to "make things better". Chances are that this would have been a non-issue (publicly) if it hadn't blown into a media frenzy. Venter, What is facebook going to do to this guy? ban his account? WOW that's gonna crush him. All he has to do is make another account under a different email. I pretty much trolled NCG with this same move for a year steady. ;D I also fail to see why in the hell is this negative publicity for the kid? The kid is going to come out of this smelling like a rose, hell they will probably have her singing at half time during next years super bowl. She will be a media hero. The difference between this creep and the people of wal mart are many. Those people are of age and made a choice to do what they are doing and dress the way they did. I'm also willing to bet that many of those pictures are staged. Again, you of all people know just because you can doesn't make it right. We are talking about a little girl. Even if she was dressed funny or had a different kind of hair cut, it wasn't her choice. She is 6 freaking years old. You can laugh at me all you want but a 6 year old little girl no way. You can snap funny pics of me too but when you re doing it to my kid, You are going to have big problems I can't tolerate that from someone who is in the position he is. Yes, certain people are held to a higher standard than others ( I'm pretty sure I've even seen you put that into print right here on BV). I've also seen the way you have reacted when people have came here and attacked people close to you. Not that I blamed you one bit either! Would you find it more wrong had this been a victim to a call he responded to? Then should he be kicked out of the fire dept? what if this would had not been seen and in a month he had taken a picture of a victim where he was at a call. Then you possibly have a fire dept. facing a law suit. Hell who knows he could have been doing this for god knows how long with pictures of people he met on calls and this was just the first time it got back. I've seen the word "hero" and "respect" used on this very message board when referring to local volunteers, was this action something you would expect from a hero or someone you would give respect to? Personally if I was in his dept. I would be going after him myself for bringing that kind of shame on me and my brothers. I sure as hell wouldn't be blaming the woman for not sweeping this under the rug.
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 22, 2013 22:32:41 GMT -5
handled privately. What he did was not illegal. If so, Many of the videos on You Tube are illegal too. . If you find a video of yourself that you did not authorize to be on youtube they will take it down.
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Post by lifesaver on Feb 22, 2013 23:25:56 GMT -5
It should have been handled privately SC instead of immediately running to the media. In my opinion this mother's "crusade" holds as much credibility as an interview with Honey Boo Boo and her mother. And the more this is discussed on public forums the more sensational and ridiculous it becomes. I would never have exposed my child to the nonsense of this public spectacle.
By the way, hang out at a school playground someday and see how kind and understanding kids are to someone who is "different" from them.
I won't comment any more on this subject.
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hawg
Going Postal
Posts: 43
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Post by hawg on Feb 22, 2013 23:29:00 GMT -5
Venter there needs to be a "like" button on this site!!! There has been so many things posted about this that it would be overflowing with them. I do know the Department in question that this asshole is a member and haven't had a chance to find out what is being done with him. I know that I would be asking for his head on the silver platter. I'm not sure if these two pictures would be enough evidence to search for kiddy porn but when I first heard of this that was the first thing I thought of. I'm not saying that there is any and don't no one think that's what I'm saying but cases have been made on less.
The statement was made that the pictures of the emergency calls could be used for training. I know that alot of things can be learned from them and has they have also helped with investigations into the fire for arson. Depending on what the call is the local photographers that have been taking them have taken great care in making sure that any citizen or license plates that appear are either blurred out or not posted. The one thing that I do hate is once someone finds out that a volunteer firefighter has done something that is how they are referred to. If they even are no longer affiliated with a Department they will get the label "a former volunteer firefighter" is being investigated for whatever.
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hawg
Going Postal
Posts: 43
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Post by hawg on Feb 22, 2013 23:34:21 GMT -5
LS you are 100% correct all the taxpayer money that has been spent on anti-bullying programs has been a joke when you have parents sitting down along side their kids and laughing at people on programs like Honey Boo Boo. It shows kids that it is ok to laugh and make comments about and to people that are different. Everybody is different and not everyone wins and that needs to be told to the ones who came up with the stupid idea that everyone are the same.
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moose
Post Master
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Post by moose on Feb 23, 2013 7:27:27 GMT -5
Not all volunteer firefighters (or career for that matter) are heroes, just as not all police, lawyers or doctors are heroes. Most firefighters are good, compassionate, caring and thoughtful folks that are the heart of a community. My guess is this firefighter, while referred to as a man, is likely almost a child himself. He made a very poor decision and has been justly admonished (IMO). He reportedly apologized publicly and privately and with the humiliation that has been served, he should have learned a hard lesson. I doubt he had any official authority to post pictures of an emergency or non-emergency nature, so to associate his name with the respective department is not fair. As a webmaster for a local fire company for many years, I had to make decisions as to what was proper and what was not proper to post. The fact that he did what he did has absolutely no bearing on whether he is a volunteer firefighter or not. That should not have even been mentioned as he was not acting in any official role at the time. The title could have easily read...Young Man Makes Very Poor Decision. The need to sensationalize takes precedence, I guess.
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 23, 2013 9:50:28 GMT -5
I don't think you guys understand. The mother didn't bring his membership to the fire company into play. HE DID. The mother claims on her web site that in his first appology to the daughter he tried to claim that he took the photo or photo's (not sure how many it was) and posted them as a training tool.
I'm guessing it didn't take long for him to relize that no one was buying that line of BS.
Also it should be noted that he isn't just a jr fireman or new volunteer she claims he is the vice pres. of the company he belongs to.
Everything below are quotes from the justice for jayden web page and are in red.
"He brought his professional life into the mix when he used the excuse it was a learning tool for his fire departments members"
"He apologized where? not to my family like he said he has! The apology he gave was only after I was reporting him to Face - Book and his company, to only turn around and use his position to say it was a learning tool to degrade my child! If that's what he calls an apology then that's horrible!" "He never apologized Elizabeth....saying that he took the pictures as a training tool is hardly an apology"
"Yes it does when he tried to say he did this was a learning tool for his company to determine the sex of a patient for treatment? So your going to determine sex now before treatment? Ridiculous!"
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Post by SpellChecker on Feb 23, 2013 10:02:24 GMT -5
The fact that he did what he did has absolutely no bearing on whether he is a volunteer firefighter or not. That should not have even been mentioned as he was not acting in any official role at the time. How does it not have a bearing on him being a firefighter? He tried to lie and use his position as an excuse. Further why should it not be mentioned? If he were a school principle would be mentioned? If obama did this would it be mentioned? If he were a cop would they not mention this? Mentioning this doesn't bring shame on the daughter, the fire company he belongs or those who serve beside him.
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