Is Wal·Mart Closing, or WHAT!?

[Venter]

Is our local Wal·Mart Closing, or does it just not give a shit?

I know that our Wal·Mart is not the fanciest of stores, but come on!

I know it would be stupid for the current Wal·Mart to invest a lot of money on a store that it hopes to replace in the "near" future.
But if they are waiting for Straban to get off their asses, then they might as well just close the current store - or invest a bunch of money into it NOW!
It's all they'll have for the next 4+ years as they wait.... and wait... and wait................................
Plus, if they intend to lease the property after they leave, then they need to have it in decent shape to attract a suitable tenant [come on Lowe's].

A walk through the store on Saturday was a bit sad, to put it lightly.
Nothing extremely out of the ordinary, but generally "not inviting".
Many items were limited or missing completely.
The sporting department was dismal.
Maybe it can be chalked up to the "Change of Seasons" or something, but if the stock is changing... then change the stock!
And if that's the case (which I don't think it is), then maybe you might want to do that at night... or sometime other than Saturday afternoon!?

It's not for lack of customers... at least not yet.
At about 6:45pm, all available check-outs were slammed about 8-10 deep, with a call for all available cashiers to come to front.
(I proceeded to the back where I was 2nd in line )

A while ago, the back corner where the crafts department lives, was intermittently shut off to shoppers by an array of buckets and tubs.
Evidently, the roof was fixed, but how many patches will be necessary to keep the current store from going under water?

If you need to get salt for your water softener, you feel like you've entered a third-world country.
Through a dark, gloomy "alleyway" into a dimly-lit, high-fenced cage.
(And you better hope you don't need salt on a snow-covered winter day).
Then, the back doors have to be manually pulled out, while trying to maneuver a cart with 160 pounds of salt

It's a double-edged sword, to be sure.
Why invest when you believe you'll be moving?
But, if they don't at least go through the motions, then it will be nothing for people to just bundle their trip to Hanover, and go to that Wal·Mart (or the Target instead).

On a related subject, we chose to eat at the Wendy's in that shopping center.
Let's just say that "Dave would not be proud", and maybe they should invest more in the food preparation than in their commercials
If you notice, while many Wendy's Restaurants have upgraded their storefronts and new logo change-overs, this one is lagging behind.
Even though their signature Red Canopy Roof is now a dull pink
Maybe they are a victim of the same, "We may be moving soon" mentality, but I'll share the same advice: don't wait for Straban.
People have MANY more food choices than they have Shopping Choices in Gettysburg - so we are not held as captive to your services.

[Alex Oreilly]

Gettysburg needs a Target, even if it id only a small one.

And if Walmart does build a new store, then whoever wants the current building will just tear it down and put up a brand new store so Walmart doesnt need to fix up their current building just keep it clean and organized but dont get your hopes up for that.

[Venter]

Jul 20, 2013 23:32:56 GMT -5 Alex Oreilly said:

Gettysburg needs a Target, even if it id only a small one.

And if Walmart does build a new store, then whoever wants the current building will just tear it down and put up a brand new store so Walmart doesnt need to fix up their current building just keep it clean and organized but dont get your hopes up for that.

A "small" Target?
Already this Wal-Mart is a bare-bones store - why should we accept a scaled-down version of a real store?.
Keeping it well stocked and clean will assure that it is at least viable as a destination for the foreseeable future.

Maybe it is the fault of certain Department Managers, or the Store Manager - but the Customers also bear a bit of the burden.
The customers are just regular people, but so many believe that they have no responsibility to help keep the store in order.
It seems that there are an inordinate amount of items strewn throughout the store by the customers.
Sometimes it looks almost deliberate.
It's almost impossible to find the Cocoa Puffs if someone has moved them to the Hair Care Products aisle
And when you finish reading the Magazine that you have no intention of buying - how hard is it to put it back where you found it?
It's not like the Dewey Decimal System for cripes sake.
If it says, "Maxim", then don't place it in front of the "MAD"!

And speaking of customers...
Does anyone else notice a higher percentage of unruly, screaming kids in our Wal-Mart than anywhere else around town?
It's almost like the parents use Wal-Mart as a sort of "Dog Park" where they can let their kids run unleashed.
I'm never disappointed to see at least one tantrum, a couple of screamers, and a lot of yelling parents.

Back to considering another store to replace Wal-Mart...
If Wal-Mart owns the land, then it will most likely restrict its use.

I would bet that Straban Twp. has some arcane ordinance that will make it nearly impossible to demolish and rebuild anything nearly as large in the current location.
They'll probably allow a "grand-fathered" use of the property.
I think it's strange to have a "Commercial District", and be so restrictive on the land.
I'll even bet that they have an Ordinance that disallows any other Civil War, or Civil Uprising from being located within 500 yards of any existing Battlefield!

[lifesaver]

Venter said:

A "small" Target?
Already this Wal-Mart is a bare-bones store - why should we accept a scaled-down version of a real store?.
Keeping it well stocked and clean will assure that it is at least viable as a destination for the foreseeable future.

Read more: boroughvent.proboards.com/thread/1062/wal-mart-closing?page=1&scrollTo=13538#ixzz2Zm9qkkv9uote here

Could not agree more!  If you ever get to the Raystown Area check out Huntingdon's Walmart.  As far as Target, until they put the Chambersburg Target in I never saw what the big attraction to Target was.....because they were only rinkey-dink scaled down Targets!  The Chambersburg Target changed my opinion of Target, the Hanover Target is even nicer.

As it is now the Gettysburg Walmart gets my business only if I am in town already.  Otherwise I make the drive west to Chambersburg (distance wise a wash from my home).   

[americaneagle]

Didn't Target turn down an opportunity to build here a number of years ago? Seems to me it had something to do with land on the Giant/Peebles stretch on that side of the road. Maybe where a trailer park was at one point?

[davew]

Maybe it has something to do with the age of the store. None of the newer walmarts i've been to around here (albeit they're in nicer areas than gettysburg - like cranberry or richland twp in the semi-affluent suburbs north of pittsburgh) look like the gettysburg walmart does. I've noticed that for years, it's smaller and more plain and often kind of beat up looking.

It's funny how our perspectives change. I remember when the now-defunct festival foods came to being and then when walmart came in, the two stores seemed impossibly big. I also remember getting irritated with my dad, who was always waiting to tell someone "it's a madhouse, walmart is a madhouse!!", same line, I heard it a hundred times. And he used it another hundred times for festival when festival opened.

Now, it's still busy, but it doesn't seem very big and it's beat up in there. Festival foods is so long gone I don't even remember when it left. Those were the days that the entire kennies had dark paneling inside, and you'd better check the date on everything you bought. Giant was over by the rec park, and if you were getting meat, you probably went to the butcher shop at the edge of the rec park there where the bank branch was/is (which I'd guess is long gone).

[americaneagle]

I've lost track of what the status of the Walmart Supercenter is that was proposed across from Sheetz. I know plans then was to vacate and rent out the old Walmart store.

[Alex Oreilly]

Jul 22, 2013 7:19:24 GMT -5 lifesaver said:

Venter said:

A "small" Target?
Already this Wal-Mart is a bare-bones store - why should we accept a scaled-down version of a real store?.
Keeping it well stocked and clean will assure that it is at least viable as a destination for the foreseeable future.

Read more: boroughvent.proboards.com/thread/1062/wal-mart-closing?page=1&scrollTo=13538#ixzz2Zm9qkkv9uote here

Could not agree more!  If you ever get to the Raystown Area check out Huntingdon's Walmart.  As far as Target, until they put the Chambersburg Target in I never saw what the big attraction to Target was.....because they were only rinkey-dink scaled down Targets!  The Chambersburg Target changed my opinion of Target, the Hanover Target is even nicer.

As it is now the Gettysburg Walmart gets my business only if I am in town already.  Otherwise I make the drive west to Chambersburg (distance wise a wash from my home).   

Livesaver, Chambersburg has a Target and Chipolte, what more could you ask for. Lol

[lifesaver]

Alex, would you believe I was at Chambersburg Kohl's last week and went right on by Chipotle???   Can't believe I actually did it!

BTW, word is that Hanover is getting a Chipotle as well.

[philliesfan]

Why does it seem that everything that happens in Gettysburg always seems to take on the form of a never ending soap opera? And I am referring to the Wal-Mart issue. I have heard various rumors about the cause of the delay in building a new store, they range from issues involving Wendys (ironic since they have there own issues) to issues involving traffic flow, township ordinances, landscape design, maybe they are afraid that a super style Wal-Mart will put one of the local grocery stores out of business (Weis perhaps?)and the list goes on and on. I'm sure the local powers to be accept the fact that tourists and college kids will frequent our Wal-Mart out of sheer desperation, however for the folks that call Gettysburg there PERMANENT home and pay taxes here, I think they deserve better ( by that I mean a new Wal-Mart).

I personally avoid our Wal-Mart unless it is a real emergency, we frequent the Wal-Marts in Chambersburg or Waynesboro and enjoy a great meal at one of those area's restaurants!

[Fire Marshal Bill]

It is like I always say, When the world comes to an end, I want to be right here in Adams County where everything happens 20 years after it does everyplace else.

[lifesaver]

Jul 23, 2013 11:10:22 GMT -5 philliesfan said:

Why does it seem that everything that happens in Gettysburg always seems to take on the form of a never ending soap opera? And I am referring to the Wal-Mart issue. I have heard various rumors about the cause of the delay in building a new store, they range from issues involving Wendys (ironic since they have there own issues) to issues involving traffic flow, township ordinances, landscape design, maybe they are afraid that a super style Wal-Mart will put one of the local grocery stores out of business (Weis perhaps?)and the list goes on and on. I'm sure the local powers to be accept the fact that tourists and college kids will frequent our Wal-Mart out of sheer desperation, however for the folks that call Gettysburg there PERMANENT home and pay taxes here, I think they deserve better ( by that I mean a new Wal-Mart).

I personally avoid our Wal-Mart unless it is a real emergency, we frequent the Wal-Marts in Chambersburg or Waynesboro and enjoy a great meal at one of those area's restaurants!

I don't think any of the local grocery stores are in danger with the addition of a Super Walmart.  I go to one store (Weis) for my main grocery needs, but also frequent Giant and Kennies for specific items, sometimes go to the Chambersburg Walmart as well.   Some in my family shop exclusively at Kennies, another at Chambersburg Walmart.  When I go to any of these stores (unless it is the wee hours of the morning at Giant) there are always plenty of customers in any of the stores.  I think it's nice having stores in relatively close proximity to each other for things that you might not be able to find in your "home" store.  

On a related note, do you know that there are differences in Sam's Club and even Walmart as to some of the goods they carry?  One specific example is the flavors of Gatorade you can buy.  Some only carry Frost Blue, others Cool Blue (according to Gatorade drinkers there IS a difference.....  )

[Alex Oreilly]

If anyone travels near Spring Grove, checkout the Kennies there, they just completely remodel it, its really nice

[Alex Oreilly]

And the one in Biglerville is going through a partial remodel, they are adding like two more additionally aisles

[Venter]

On a related note, do you know that there are differences in Sam's Club and even Walmart as to some of the goods they carry? One specific example is the flavors of Gatorade you can buy. Some only carry Frost Blue, others Cool Blue (according to Gatorade drinkers there IS a difference..... )

As if Gatorade drinkers have a sense of taste anyway???
"Oh! This tastes like Lemon-Lime SWEAT instead of St. Joseph's-Aspirin-Orange-Sweat!"

And I had to drink some Salty-Sweet-Grape-Flavored Swill before my last Proctoscopy... and to this day, the Grape Gatorade is... well, let's just say, less than appealing to me for some reason

[buckeye]

Speaking of the proposed Walmart (and lack thereof), has anyone noticed how the minute you cross the Adams County line into (name any adjacent county) the rules seem to change regarding development? You go from no development (Adams County) to lots of new activity. Even at the height of the recession, new businesses were going up just across the Adams/York county line in Hanover, as well as Franklin County in Chambersburg, not to mention Frederick County, Maryland. Adams County reminds me of the hole in the donut...nothing in the middle but lots going on surrounding it. Here, a business is proposed and it's debated and tabled for years. Elsewhere, it's proposed and approved. For whatever reason, Straban Twp has fought the develpment at US 30/15 every step of the way, even though its zoned commercial and fits in nicely with all the other businesses on 30. Even went to court trying to stop it; lost, and wasted a bunch of taxpayer money. On another note, the Adams County Commissioners claim they are fully committed to building and maintaining business in Adams County. And yet, we are losing Shindler (sp?) Elevator to York County. A new facility is being built right across the Adams/York county line in Hanover. Why isn't it being built in the so-called Adams County Business Park near Pella? Somebody dropped the ball...or never caught it.

[diogenes]

in pure academic terms (econmic geography) enterprises normally locate based on one or more of three factors--labor, market or raw materials. (The IT world is having some effect on these locational theories but not much yet...largely limited to home based IT operations.) Which of the three does Adams have? 2010 census said we have about 24% of citizens over 19 without even a GED degree so forget having skilled labor available. Raw materials? We do well there with the fruit industry but there are limits in that for the large labor pool it is a seasonal factor as well as minimal pay. Market? Hardly--we have about 100,000 in the county and 10% in Gettysburg. This is why CSX and NS RR's have rail transfer points in Chambersburg--those sites are within 500 miles of over 30+% of the US population...theory is to use rail to 500 miles of destination and then truck it to the final point. So Chambersburg, Shippensburg, and York are on top of 81, 76, and 83 respectively--we're on top of 30 and 15...so, from a pure academic viewpoint we are an interesting case study of yet another "donut hole."

[buckeye]

"2010 census said we have about 24% of citizens over 19 without even a GED degree so forget having skilled labor available."

Depressing - and very telling. I often thought some sort of IT operation would be ideal for Adams County. That statistic however pretty much blows that idea out of the water. I still have trouble though understanding the hostility in this county to almost all new business - no matter how big or small - or even if that business is already located here.

[Venter]

Gettysburg will continue to live in the past as long as they refuse to accept the future (or at least the present).

You've got Route 30 - A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT - yet you refuse to allow it to flourish, and then actually RESTRICT the advancement of development.
The Borough had many different industries over the years, and through attrition (or pressure), they've lost all of them.

I'm not saying, "Build it and they will come", but I think it would be a lot more attractive to potential home buyers if there were at least the basic amenities here.
You won't find the youth of today willing to remain in a backwater town.
You won't invite Professionals into the area if you offer WalMart as your high end brands. (Don't get me wrong, I love WalMart for what it is - a one-stop shopping spree).

I think it's INSANE for the County to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into their "Commerce Park" project, just to make the properties "Build Ready".
Why the fuck did they choose a boulder-strewn stretch of land to create that "Commerce Park" anyway?
There are plenty of properties in the region that would be more conducive to those types of businesses.
And... on top of all that, they allow Straban Township (& Counselor Wally Davis) to restrict both their traffic access and their signage - which seriously hurts the potential of such a venture.

If I hear one more time that "Everyone Knows where So&So Store is" I'm gonna scream!
This is a Tourist Town, and a College Town.
There is a CONSTANT influx of new visitors to our town - that is the primary function of Gettysburg; Tourism.
Some of these folks will still be trying to navigate by using Larson's and Fantasyland as landmarks!

The powers-that-be need to wake up to the future of the region.
If the only thing we offer our kids in the future is an $8.00 and hour job in a service industry, then we will continue to lose our sons and daughters to better pastures.
Our High Schools and Colleges will continue to churn out well-educated young adults - just to see them take up their roots, and use their talents elsewhere.

[diogenes]

speaking of "donut holes," reminds me that we are really in a "donut hole" economically speaking...I may have said this before in this forum but with Plannning and Development and ACEDC working on a plan it might be helpful to look around us. To the north is Cumberland County with its transportation linkages, development in the Carlisle area and development (Volvo) in the Ship area. East is York and the employment shifts associated with baase realignmen (BRAC) namely Aberdeen and Fort Meade as well as additional warehousing. To the south is MD and the growth associated with BRAC there (Deterick and Richie) as well as Frederick. And to the west is Chambersburg and the two rail transfer sites and massive waehousing. All of these enterprises look at Adams as their bedroom...means additional housing but also additional schools, infrastructure, et al with limited return in terms of taxes,etc. Think about it--the only part of the donut that has no nutritional value nor any flavor is the "hole."

[Venter]

Jul 29, 2013 6:42:28 GMT -5 diogenes said:

speaking of "donut holes," reminds me that we are really in a "donut hole" economically speaking...I may have said this before in this forum but with Plannning and Development and ACEDC working on a plan it might be helpful to look around us. To the north is Cumberland County with its transportation linkages, development in the Carlisle area and development (Volvo) in the Ship area. East is York and the employment shifts associated with baase realignmen (BRAC) namely Aberdeen and Fort Meade as well as additional warehousing. To the south is MD and the growth associated with BRAC there (Deterick and Richie) as well as Frederick. And to the west is Chambersburg and the two rail transfer sites and massive waehousing. All of these enterprises look at Adams as their bedroom...means additional housing but also additional schools, infrastructure, et al with limited return in terms of taxes,etc. Think about it--the only part of the donut that has no nutritional value nor any flavor is the "hole."

They may look at this area as a bedroom community, but the area looks at them as parasites.
The region doesn't really want us "Marylanders".
The less appealing the current residents can make it, the better it is for "preserving the area".
Of course, MANY inhabitants are ALSO Transplants - NIMBYs who want to close the door behind them once they got here.

What they FAIL to Realize, is that by offering only Minimum Wage Employment, they are actually inviting the class of people they are most concerned about!
They put a bowl of milk on their porch and wonder why they only attract stray cats.

The greatest "holes" we have are those in power

[moose]

Jul 28, 2013 9:31:25 GMT -5 Venter said:

Gettysburg will continue to live in the past as long as they refuse to accept the future (or at least the present).

You've got Route 30 - A COMMERCIAL DISTRICT - yet you refuse to allow it to flourish, and then actually RESTRICT the advancement of development.
The Borough had many different industries over the years, and through attrition (or pressure), they've lost all of them.

I'm not saying, "Build it and they will come", but I think it would be a lot more attractive to potential home buyers if there were at least the basic amenities here.
You won't find the youth of today willing to remain in a backwater town.
You won't invite Professionals into the area if you offer WalMart as your high end brands. (Don't get me wrong, I love WalMart for what it is - a one-stop shopping spree).

I think it's INSANE for the County to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars into their "Commerce Park" project, just to make the properties "Build Ready".
Why the fuck did they choose a boulder-strewn stretch of land to create that "Commerce Park" anyway?
There are plenty of properties in the region that would be more conducive to those types of businesses.
And... on top of all that, they allow Straban Township (& Counselor Wally Davis) to restrict both their traffic access and their signage - which seriously hurts the potential of such a venture.

If I hear one more time that "Everyone Knows where So&So Store is" I'm gonna scream!
This is a Tourist Town, and a College Town.
There is a CONSTANT influx of new visitors to our town - that is the primary function of Gettysburg; Tourism.
Some of these folks will still be trying to navigate by using Larson's and Fantasyland as landmarks!

The powers-that-be need to wake up to the future of the region.
If the only thing we offer our kids in the future is an $8.00 and hour job in a service industry, then we will continue to lose our sons and daughters to better pastures.
Our High Schools and Colleges will continue to churn out well-educated young adults - just to see them take up their roots, and use their talents elsewhere.

Yea Venter! You've got it! Let me forewarn anyone happening upon this post that I may (hell, I WILL) curse. I apologize beforehand but sometimes feel it is warranted to get the point across (not to mention get it off my chest).

The powers that be in this county DO NOT want progress! They want it to remain as undeveloped as they possibly can maintain. They are so focused on keeping it backwoods/backwater country, that they are willing to break the law to do it. I've documented a myriad of ways that they are breaking the law (spreadthemustard.com/Plaintiffs_Brief_To_Defendants_Preliminary_Objections.pdf), with the intent on shifting taxes from those who are enrolled in the Clean & Green Program to those "not" enrolled in the C&G Program. They want this county to remain undeveloped and supported disproportionately by those poor son-of-bitches that are too dumb, or unable to afford more than ten acres of land.

I attended an Adams County Ag-Land Preservation meeting with the sole intent of documenting and witnessing first-hand, our Solicitor's active participation in the meeting. It was mentioned at the meeting that he was also present at the prior meeting. This is nothing unusual for a county Solicitor to attend meetings such as these, however when you factor in the passionate literary document he published with the Villanova Environmental Journal in 2000 (digitalcommons.law.villanova.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1176&context=elj), it becomes quite obvious that preserving land is high on his personal agenda.

The County only officially recognizes ONE land use for each parcel in the C&G Program, HOWEVER, they grant multiple land use values. For instance, the Chief Assessor's parcel is officially designated Ag-Use (higher land-use values than Forest-Reserve), but 2.3 (off the top of my head) acres of wooded acres is assessed at the lower land-use value of Forest-Reserve (even though 10 acres of forested land is legally required for Forest-Reserve values). This is just one example of fucking the rest of the poor bastards who aren't fortunate enough to own more than 10 acres. If they only grant one land-use (typically, Ag-Use or Forest-Reserve which are both not open to the public) but grant MULTIPLE assessed land-use values, they effectively give the landowner the LOWEST possible assessed value, while promising the landowner that their land shall remain NOT PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE. In essence, the big landowners have their cake and eat it too! Meanwhile, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the poor sob's that are subsidizing the land get nothing but the shaft, in return.

A couple of scenarios could be in play here. Either:

• Our Solicitor gave solid legal advice and the Chief Assessor ignored it and chose to violate the law on her own,
• OR, our Solicitor is the stupidest fucking $170,000/year attorney that ever lived by misinterpreting the law many times over,
• OR, our Solicitor is a clever motherfucker that only cares about advancing his own agenda at the cost of 90% of the poor sob's with less than ten acres, which includes many fixed income elderly just trying to make ends meet.

Choose for yourself which scenario is most likely, but before you do, you MUST read his scholarly work called "Can You Get There From Here? (link provided above)" It would be too obvious if our Solicitor owned more than ten acres himself, so he purposely sacrifices and lives in a modest home which makes him above suspicion.

Meanwhile, the dumb fucking Commissioners kiss the ass of their nominated employees and shovel barrels-full of money to a select few families in the name of Easements. These Easements are granted to just a few lucky folks and in return for dollar-for-dollar match of the appraised value of their land, they promise not to develop it. However, lots of easements are negotiated that allow for as many homes as agricultural zoning allows. Which means in return for the taxpayers buying their land, the owners continue to own their land and are free to sell and/or place as many homes on their land as the zoning allows. There once was a time when some FINE landowners would DONATE their easements OR take a substantial reduction in the appraised value. Nowadays they've grown so accustomed to the generous money-matching easements, that become GREEDY Mother Fuckers, and the Commissioners are happy to hand out OUR money like candy. Remember, those tax dollars are disproportionately collected from us poor sob's.

Recently, the land preservation community honored a local landowner for his easement rights. They gave him a boatload of money and all but publicly kissed his ass in exchange for the rights. I know this gentleman, and I gotta be honest...I love him to death, BUT this gentleman has made a living of buying Adams County land, dividing it, and selling it off to others. He's individually done more harm to preserving land in Adams County than anyone I know. By honoring him, they're a bunch of freakin' hypocrites! ...but, they got more land added to the preservation rolls.

Meanwhile, they Ag-Land Preservation Board talks of making agricultural the economic driver (heard it with my own two ears)! Agricultural is driving the economy? Get fuckin real! If you get a job on a local farm, you may get to work maybe 7 months out of the year for maybe $10/hour under the table. That ain't gonna drive much of anything.

Than you got line items in the County Budget under the Commissioners expenditures to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars to be spent at the Commissioners' discretion. Think this is WAM (walking around money) funds or you think this might end up as more easement money? I tried to find out and the wimpy County Controller wouldn't/couldn't identify what this line item was for. He said it "could be for this" or it "could be for that". What do you think it's for? What kind of Controller is that, that he won't even tell his fucking constituency the truth.

Now...don't get me wrong! I'm not against the noble idea of preserving land. What I am against is the lying, possible criminal attempts at stealing from the less fortunate without their knowledge. If you're gonna preserve land, it MUST be done above-board and according to the law! I'm not very fond of the reverse Robinhood type of thing where you steal from the poor to give to the rich.

This C&G method of assessment by the county is very obscure and extensive. It turns my stomach to know our nominated employees have levied such a burden on 90% of the taxpayers, and our elected officials stand idly by and let themselves be manipulated by them.

Had it not been for a shitty reassessment and an even shittier response from our former elected officials, much of this would have gone unnoticed. Thanks to Tim Barr's powerful and transparent CourtHouseOnline.com (Jesus...did I say that?!). Without Courthouseonline I never would have discovered the despicable chicanery that has infested the Adams County courthouse.

[moose]

What they FAIL to Realize, is that by offering only Minimum Wage Employment, they are actually inviting the class of people they are most concerned about!
They put a bowl of milk on their porch and wonder why they only attract stray cats.

BTW, love this analogy!

[Venter]

Yeah, but Moose, what do you REALLY Think!!!

Damn, man, check your blood pressure... because you just caused mine to increase!

[Alex Oreilly]

Moose, where is the C and G lawsuit at