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Post by lifesaver on Oct 8, 2013 16:02:39 GMT -5
If only one party supports a bill, it's probably not a very good bill. If both parties support it, you can be sure that however good it seems on the surface, under the covers it's worse than you could possibly imagine. As for the NPS its all about the dog and pony show! When are "we the people" going to wake up! Its we the people who put the fucktards in office. As long as we vote for them we will get the same results. brought to you by a registred independant I was a registered Independent from the time I first registered to vote over 40 years ago. My first vote was for George McGovern in 1972. Since then I've voted both Democrat and Republican in every election whether it be national, state or local. I vote for the person I feel will be the best to represent us. Over the years I have become increasingly dissatisfied by the antics of our two major parties, not so much state and local, but in our national elected candidates. I realized that I am essentially liberally social and fiscally conservative. For that reason I have changed my status, after 40 years, from Independent to Libertarian. I think the Libertarian party is gaining strength and numbers because the Democrats and Republicans are acting like spoiled brats and can't learn to play well together. I think, in time, that the Libertarian party will be a serious third party contender in our elections. I took this quiz and it pretty much sealed the deal that I was, in fact, a Libertarian. Almost as high on the grid that I could get. www.isidewith.com/political-quiz
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Post by Venter on Oct 9, 2013 8:47:17 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax People who are Libertarian, or Independent are just fooling themselves. You will never gain enough power unless your ranks infiltrate a major party to the extent that you can take it over. Even if your product is of better quality, the masses will make the final decisions - and the numbers are not with an alternative party.
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Post by Venter on Oct 9, 2013 8:58:06 GMT -5
Talking about the shutdowns, if a State Government were to shut down, could we still use their roads? I can understand not opening a Monument, or Museum where it would take manpower to keep it open. But, to close all the roads through the Park... that's just being pricks. And did anyone else notice those Electronic Message Systems near the Visitors Center? Those lighted signs that inform the public that the Visitor Center is OPEN. I want everyone to remember the messages that are posted there. They are NOT being posted for the purpose of public safety, traffic control, or public notice. They are being used strictly to inform everyone that the "Privately Owned" Foundation Building is "Open for Business".Opens up a huge can of worms, thank you
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 9, 2013 20:38:40 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax People who are Libertarian, or Independent are just fooling themselves. You will never gain enough power unless your ranks infiltrate a major party to the extent that you can take it over. Even if your product is of better quality, the masses will make the final decisions - and the numbers are not with an alternative party. I'm not so sure Venter. By the extent that both parties collude to keep Libertarian candidates off the ballot makes one wonder just how strong the Libertarian party is becoming. I believe, in time, that the Libertarian party will be a viable third party choice.
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Post by redlock on Oct 9, 2013 21:12:39 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax People who are Libertarian, or Independent are just fooling themselves. You will never gain enough power unless your ranks infiltrate a major party to the extent that you can take it over. Even if your product is of better quality, the masses will make the final decisions - and the numbers are not with an alternative party. That is why I switched back after being registered many years as a Libertarian.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Oct 10, 2013 4:35:22 GMT -5
Talking about the shutdowns, if a State Government were to shut down, could we still use their roads? I can understand not opening a Monument, or Museum where it would take manpower to keep it open. But, to close all the roads through the Park... that's just being pricks. And did anyone else notice those Electronic Message Systems near the Visitors Center? Those lighted signs that inform the public that the Visitor Center is OPEN. I want everyone to remember the messages that are posted there. They are NOT being posted for the purpose of public safety, traffic control, or public notice. They are being used strictly to inform everyone that the "Privately Owned" Foundation Building is "Open for Business".Opens up a huge can of worms, thank you Didn’t I see in the news where they have been chasing people who lease the land for their houses from the government of their property? Isn’t the Visitor Center on Government land? Aren’t the roads and parking lots government property? How can the visitor center be allowed to stay open, while people are being removed from their homes?
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 10, 2013 9:35:55 GMT -5
Talking about the shutdowns, if a State Government were to shut down, could we still use their roads? I can understand not opening a Monument, or Museum where it would take manpower to keep it open. But, to close all the roads through the Park... that's just being pricks. And did anyone else notice those Electronic Message Systems near the Visitors Center? Those lighted signs that inform the public that the Visitor Center is OPEN. I want everyone to remember the messages that are posted there. They are NOT being posted for the purpose of public safety, traffic control, or public notice. They are being used strictly to inform everyone that the "Privately Owned" Foundation Building is "Open for Business".Opens up a huge can of worms, thank you Didn’t I see in the news where they have been chasing people who lease the land for their houses from the government of their property? Isn’t the Visitor Center on Government land? Aren’t the roads and parking lots government property? How can the visitor center be allowed to stay open, while people are being removed from their homes? I think it's a matter of selective enforcement and also selective compliance. Last night I saw a father and young daughter walking down the hill across from the cemetery, clearing ignoring the "Do Not Enter NPS" sign. Some locals have been sternly warned and escorted off battlefield roads. I read of a restaurant owner who has reopened his restaurant despite being ordered to close. There are instances all over the country where people are clearly ignoring the edicts of a government gone mad. And, I gotta say if the worst that is going to happen is a stern "Don't do it again" I think it sends a clear message to our government about how the American people feel about this government shutdown and who is to blame.The American people are pissed at the antics of our government, our Congress, and our president. A growing number of Americans (all parties) are supporting legislation for term limits for our Congressman. I think it's anyone's guess what will be the result of the midterm elections.
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 10, 2013 9:46:57 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax People who are Libertarian, or Independent are just fooling themselves. You will never gain enough power unless your ranks infiltrate a major party to the extent that you can take it over. Even if your product is of better quality, the masses will make the final decisions - and the numbers are not with an alternative party. That is why I switched back after being registered many years as a Libertarian. And that is why, after over 40 years, I went from Independent to Libertarian. I realized that I needed to take a stand. That being said, that doesn't mean that I would vote solely along party lines. I would continue to vote for the person who I felt best represented my beliefs. I don't think the Libertarian party is where it needs to be.....yet. There are potential candidates out there who support some of the Libertarian beliefs. Rand Paul comes to mind.
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Post by lazerdoc on Oct 10, 2013 16:20:05 GMT -5
I usually tell visitors to go to The Gettysburg Musuem of History and the Seminary Ridge Musuem both are free and have more artifacts to look at. The other one I tell them to see is the Diorama. Get more history out of them then the v.c. and wills house. I haven't been to the Seminary Ridge Museum yet, but according to their web site it is not free. It lists a standard ticket at $9, a ticket plus cupola tour is $29. Is there a free version also?
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Post by Venter on Oct 10, 2013 18:53:54 GMT -5
Evidently there are some people planning an event on Sunday: www.eveningsun.com/local/ci_24280902If it was closed for the safety, protection, or welfare of the public, then I can almost understand a park closing. Floods, snowfall, weather... all causes for closure. But a bunch of assholes in Congress? What part of NATIONAL do they not understand? And don't give me that bullshit about Gettysburg being a National MILITARY PARK!If it's not a Military BASE, with barbed wire fences, and Jersey wall barriers, then they are full of shit.
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davew
Poster Child
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Post by davew on Oct 11, 2013 13:26:44 GMT -5
For congress? It seems the closure is a administration issue and not a congressional issue.
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 12, 2013 7:37:16 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax People who are Libertarian, or Independent are just fooling themselves. You will never gain enough power unless your ranks infiltrate a major party to the extent that you can take it over. Even if your product is of better quality, the masses will make the final decisions - and the numbers are not with an alternative party. I believe I may soon be upgrading to Blue Ray..... www.gallup.com/poll/165392/perceived-need-third-party-reaches-new-high.aspx
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Post by Venter on Oct 12, 2013 9:44:14 GMT -5
Lifesaver, I didn't say that there isn't a NEED for a Third Party - I agree that there should definitely be one. I believe the quote above pretty much sums it up though.
What it will take is for the Moderate Wings of both Parties, who in principle are the closest in ideology, to form their own Party. Maybe call themselves the Common Party. Then the Democrats and Republicans will be made up of whatever remains of the Parties who hang onto the outer fringes of their Liberal or Conservative Beliefs.
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Post by Venter on Oct 12, 2013 9:48:28 GMT -5
You can delude yourselves as much as you like, while you watch your movies on your Sony Betamax ... I believe I may soon be upgrading to Blue Ray..... Maybe I'll concede that you may upgrade to LaserDisc! And... I have a nice 8-Track RECORDER that you may be interested in.
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 13, 2013 18:13:11 GMT -5
Good for them!
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Post by Venter on Oct 14, 2013 8:58:26 GMT -5
Can you imagine the shitstorm that would have occurred if the Police had tried to interfere!?
From a Public Relations stance alone, it would have been a field day for the media - and a black eye for Congress.
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Jayhawk
Member
"That boy is as sharp as a pound of wet liver" Foghorn Leghorn
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Post by Jayhawk on Oct 14, 2013 15:08:14 GMT -5
Forgive me for lurking. I have been watching this whole thing from the safety of the mid-west.Concerning the "shutdown", it alarms how government agencies, either under orders from the president or not have so glibly shut down access to PUBLIC property, and seem to expect no repercussions from the public at large. A few protest here and there make for interesting news, but it should be clear to all that the government of,by and for the people is no longer in place.It seems to be an overreach to shut down roads that cross dams operated by the Corp of Engineers as happened here or roads that lead to a wide open battlefield. It causes me to be concerned that our government is no longer our employee, but is becoming more our master.
I will admit that might be a bit of an overreach, but when looked at in conjunction with all else that is going on, such as mandatory health care purchases(eventually) to outlandish rules concerning coal etc. Our government seems to be amassing more and more power and is less and less afraid to show it.
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Post by Alex Oreilly on Oct 14, 2013 21:54:17 GMT -5
2014 Midterm Elections it is time to vote them all out.
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davew
Poster Child
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Post by davew on Oct 15, 2013 8:05:22 GMT -5
Vote who out and put who in? Watch in CA and other places where they've managed to vote out significant levels of local and state government, and look what comes in. It's not like you turn over a scumbag to have the local pastor run and be transparent.
Right now, I think the system is doing what it's supposed to do, and the administration chose to push the park closures as a very public way to piss people off. I doubt congress wants to see the parks close, nor do congressional members probably appreciate too much that NPS is trying to close places that are not funded at all federally or that are majority funded by the states.
It seems the ask in exchange for the debt ceiling was to delay obamacare's individual mandate for a year. That doesn't seem like much of an issue to me given that the tax revenue it would generate is $95 per person, and given that the administration delayed the business mandate (presumably because it would have hurt DNC fundraising abilities to leave it in place, but they don't care much about sticking it to individuals).
What's lost in the shuffle here is that the rate of debt growth *is* a big deal, and the modifications to the o-care bill so far have all been loss of revenue items, which was expected in the first place coming along with the lie that the bill was almost self funding. It has become a money pit, and doesn't do anything to control medical costs (it actually increases them while increasing the debt at the same time).
Personally, I support the shutdown. I'm sure that a minority of folks do, but the last thing I'd do is vote out the people who are (even if politically motivated - they're all politically motivated) pushing for something that means less universal federal exertion and less mandated behavior. It's disgusting that people who had catastrophic coverage and could afford to pay the rest out of pocket are not allowed to do that, it's a transfer of money from A to B. They need the premium dollars from those people to cover other folks.
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davew
Poster Child
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Post by davew on Oct 15, 2013 8:06:14 GMT -5
I will admit that might be a bit of an overreach, but when looked at in conjunction with all else that is going on, such as mandatory health care purchases(eventually) to outlandish rules concerning coal etc. Our government seems to be amassing more and more power and is less and less afraid to show it. 10,500 pages of regulations written thus far for obamacare.
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Post by Venter on Oct 15, 2013 8:07:39 GMT -5
2014 Midterm Elections it is time to vote them all out. Sounds good... but it won't happen. First of all, by 2014 the "People" will have conveniently forgotten this little incident. Another thing is that "It is obviously Someone Else's Senator, or Representative, who fucked things up - not MINE!" Harry Reid won't lose his job over this, and neither will John McCain. "MY Senator has Seniority and I don't want to lose that 'power'", seems to be the mindset of the mindless.
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Post by philliesfan on Oct 15, 2013 9:11:43 GMT -5
gburg717 basically hit the nail on the head only when election time comes around again, everyone will forgive & forget and they will vote the same clowns back into office. It's such ashame that we can't put folks into office that actually have some common sense and have the american people's interest at heart. We should be caring about america first and worry about the others afterwards. Obomacare is a joke and americans should pressure their representatives to stand up and fight against it. Closing the national parks is a joke, it's our tax dollars that support them, if americans showed support and decided to visit them in groups during this shut down, would they arrest all of us? Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
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Post by Venter on Oct 15, 2013 10:16:15 GMT -5
I was expecting an article about the Pennsylvania Monument "Protest" in the Gettysburg Times - but no such thing.
I can't believe that they failed to Report on something as big as this, within their own back yard. The Evening Sun covered it. Why not the Times?
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davew
Poster Child
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Post by davew on Oct 15, 2013 13:52:21 GMT -5
gburg717 basically hit the nail on the head only when election time comes around again, everyone will forgive & forget and they will vote the same clowns back into office. It's such ashame that we can't put folks into office that actually have some common sense and have the american people's interest at heart. We should be caring about america first and worry about the others afterwards. Obomacare is a joke and americans should pressure their representatives to stand up and fight against it. Closing the national parks is a joke, it's our tax dollars that support them, if americans showed support and decided to visit them in groups during this shut down, would they arrest all of us? Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Not only is it our tax dollars that support them, but their budget - the entire NPS budget all together is a very small fraction of many of the services that are continuing. There are gobs of items that have been taken offline or closed just to exert political pressure. I recall a long time ago filing a complaint for violation of the federal do not call list. It was an automated form. I went to review the website today to point it out to someone else and there is a big message on the front of the AUTOMATED website that it is shut down because of the government shut down. Mind you, it takes no more money to run this site whether someone is manning it or not (and probably more to close it down), and it is STILL online, only just enough to give you a f. off type of statement. It's another example of something that's been changed in a baby tantrum sort of way instead of in a way that actually represents savings. FWIW, the last figure I could see for the NPS budget was about one 700th of the *deficit* spending the government has done each year over the last five years. To claim the parks are closed due to the shutdown is a joke, a bad one. Presume voter registration for illegal aliens is probably still possible.
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 15, 2013 18:30:14 GMT -5
gburg717 basically hit the nail on the head only when election time comes around again, everyone will forgive & forget and they will vote the same clowns back into office. It's such ashame that we can't put folks into office that actually have some common sense and have the american people's interest at heart. We should be caring about america first and worry about the others afterwards. Obomacare is a joke and americans should pressure their representatives to stand up and fight against it. Closing the national parks is a joke, it's our tax dollars that support them, if americans showed support and decided to visit them in groups during this shut down, would they arrest all of us? Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. I agree philliesfan! However, I am more optimistic that voters eyes have been opened and we may start to see some changes down the pike. I have never seen such a push for term limits from both parties. Obamacare is a train wreck, it only replaces one broken system with another.
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