moose
Post Master
Posts: 184
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Post by moose on Oct 8, 2013 19:26:07 GMT -5
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moose
Post Master
Posts: 184
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Post by moose on Oct 9, 2013 3:41:33 GMT -5
I don't see this guy getting much satisfaction from his suit. Pennsylvania is an "at will" state and as long as no reason was given for his departure, it makes it much more difficult to challenge. Besides, he was hired just 6 months previous to firing, so does 6 months difference in his age really matter? I wish him luck and it will be fun to watch, but I doubt he gets very far.
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Post by Venter on Oct 9, 2013 8:34:51 GMT -5
It seems like no one can get fired for anything anymore. I guess things like skills, ability, competence, attitude, etc. are not legitimate reasons to let someone go. It must be because of someone's "age, sex, handicap" or some other buzz word  |
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Post by crazy8 on Oct 11, 2013 7:15:46 GMT -5
Sheriff Muller has been successfully sued twice! Once by his former K9 deputy. He also was sued by an admin clerk but that suit never made the press! Hmmmmmm..
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Post by sunshine on Oct 16, 2013 12:55:06 GMT -5
crazy8 should check the facts before spreading lies- Sheriff Muller was not sued by either one - The K-9 was an injunction to retain the dog, and the clerk sued the County commissioners and Human Resources -Sheriff Muller was listed because she worked for his office, he did not fire her! This is probably a product of "Mr. Untruthful Redding for Sheriff"
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Post by redlock on Oct 16, 2013 20:26:10 GMT -5
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Post by leeroy on Oct 16, 2013 20:39:50 GMT -5
I doubt he does the hiring. It is probably done by the human resources deportment with the final approval from the commissioners. Salaries would be set by the salary board.
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Post by crazy8 on Oct 17, 2013 11:25:16 GMT -5
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Post by crazy8 on Oct 17, 2013 11:27:04 GMT -5
bvent2.pdf (211.91 KB) Round two..it isn't Redding that is spreading lies! Not sure how to post this pdf so that guests can read it. Any help?
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Post by crazy8 on Oct 17, 2013 11:37:45 GMT -5
crazy8 should check the facts before spreading lies- Sheriff Muller was not sued by either one - The K-9 was an injunction to retain the dog, and the clerk sued the County commissioners and Human Resources -Sheriff Muller was listed because she worked for his office, he did not fire her! This is probably a product of "Mr. Untruthful Redding for Sheriff" As Redding said, smoke and mirrors! Clearly Sunshine has spent too much time in the sun or drinking the Muller Kool-Aid. The Mullerites paint Redding as a liar and slanderer yet his facts come from the County Budgets and Right to Know requests. He has not attacked Mr. Muller's character like they have attacked Redding's. Talk about running a negative campaign..SHEESH! |
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 17, 2013 17:21:25 GMT -5
Round two..it isn't Redding that is spreading lies! Not sure how to post this pdf so that guests can read it. Any help? You could copy and paste. To be honest though that legal gobbly gook makes my head spin if I don't have any skin in the game. I did notice that both the documents you referenced have confidentiality agreements. Wonder if you just violated them? |
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Post by Deputy Sheriff on Oct 18, 2013 7:52:52 GMT -5
Mr. Redding filed a Right-to-Know request because he had nothing to run on. Unfortunately he does not understand the Budget process as the BUDGET CLEARLY HAS BEEN CORRECTED TO REFLECT THAT THE SETTLEMENT THE COUNTY MADE WITH THE EMPLOYEE IS NOT AGAINST SHERIFF MULLER. Check it out for yourself and you will see Redding is wrong again, as well as all the other information he is telling people in PRIVATE. He has no clue about the Sheriff's Office so he makes up what he wants. Not to Mention he switched parties "pretending to be a Democrat" because he knows he could not win (his own words). Say what you will but unless you know the TRUE facts you might want to keep your Redding "opinions & mis-information" to yourself. Sheriff Muller will not stoop to Redding's level to attack his character and promote negative campaigning - but that is what Mr. Redding has done since 4 years ago when he lost - I have seen and heard it straight from him - but I guess If you have no record or experience to run on - you attack your opponent. Not very professional for a supposed Law Enforcement Officer (constable).
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Post by redlock on Oct 18, 2013 19:21:45 GMT -5
I doubt he does the hiring. It is probably done by the human resources deportment with the final approval from the commissioners. Salaries would be set by the salary board. Sooooo.......Does anybody know who is responsible for the hiring then? |
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Post by gdaddy on Oct 19, 2013 12:42:57 GMT -5
The County is ultimately responsible for the hiring/ firing for many departments, but those staffing decisions are made by the Sheriff and confirmed by the commissioners. Hence the lawsuits were against and settled by the Commissioners. The lawsuits did allege misdeeds by the SHERIFF not by the commissioners. Analogous to the teacher who molests a child, the school district is sued, not the teacher, So Muller is saying look they sued someone else? I will guarantee that if he Muller could have been fired by the commissioners he would have been. Mike Redding did not make this up, Deputy, and you know that as Sheriff he runs his own department, so be honest, the settlements were because of the wrong doings of whom?
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Post by Deputy Sheriff on Oct 21, 2013 8:08:01 GMT -5
gdaddy is soooo wrong - but this is the act of Redding's false information - The only money paid out of Sheriff's Budget was for wages owed to the K-9 Deputy that she saved as comp time and when she quit, it was required by Federal Law to be paid for them - AND she purchased the k-9 from the County out of that money - so where is the wrong doing by Muller?  The other clerk that was fired by Human Resources and the Commissioners was not a decision made by Muller. You ask why we call Redding a liar - because he is changing the facts to what he wants them to be - not telling the whole truth and slandering the entire Sheriff's Office by what he tells people in private. Maybe you have not been a part of that conversation. |
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Post by gdaddy on Oct 21, 2013 13:10:43 GMT -5
Ah, Deputy, great that you defend your boss, but I honestly have no connections with either candidate, but your own arguments are betraying your lack of honesty. First you say that Muller was not sued, then you say that he sort of was, but the people who sued him only got what they were entitled to any way so, what's the big deal. First, having to sue for what you are legally entitled to is not an ideal situation, nor does it make the man who is sued look all that good. Second, the taxpayer footed at least the legal bill for defending Muller in this matter. So if the employees in question were paid as they were owed, then it would have saved the County money in legal bills. Mike Redding did not tell me this common sense did. These decisions were Muller's to make and they were bad ones. Again, court house security not being given to the Sheriff's Department? Not because of anything Mike Redding said, but because Muller pissed off the Judges so much that they said no way. Muller did say that he was switching his registration, did go to Democratic dinners and did say that he was happy to represent the Dems, I know, because I was there and I heard him. Is Mike Redding any different? I do not know, only time will tell, but he did change his registration at least.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Oct 21, 2013 16:06:01 GMT -5
Please excuse me for butting in with something I know little about, but I just have express my opinion and ask a few questions. Although every local Sheriff I have been familiar with has had a background as a police officer, as I read things, I’m just not sure how important that is.
I have been reading a few articles and pages on the duties and responsibilities of the Sheriff’s office. From every thing I read, the Sheriff’s office is not inherently a “Law Enforcement Agency”. From what I have read, traditionally in Pennsylvania the Sheriff is a servant of the courts, with responsibility for court room security, transporting prisoners, and serving court papers, to include arrest warrants.
Some of my reading tells me that in some counties of Pennsylvania, the Sheriff is responsible for Court House Security and for the County Prison.
Again, just from what I have read, the court must grant the Sheriff’s office law enforcement authority. I understand that the Sheriff and Deputies can make arrest, but can’t file charges unless the court authorizes this. (Now that doesn’t make any sense to me.)
As I said, I could be wrong in this, and if so I apologize.
If this is the case, why is the current Sheriff working to get the Adams County Sheriff’s Department fully accredited by the Pennsylvania Law Enforcement Accreditation Commission. If the office has no law enforcement authority and responsibility why is this necessary? Is there something in the works for the county courts to endorse them as a law enforcement agency? Is this certification free, or are we, the taxpayers of the county paying to have a certification obtained that will never be used?
If the Sheriff’s office is not a Law Enforcement Agency, why is a law enforcement background necessary to hold the job?
If a law enforcement background is required, shouldn’t the parties have assured that their candidate is qualified before they support him/her?
Doesn’t a Constable do basically the same thing as the Sheriff but on an individual basis and working basically as a contractor, than being paid by the county? I can find where the Deputies have to have specific training, but I haven't been able to find any training requirements for Sheriff
I haven’t been able to find anything on Sheriff training in Pennsylvania, only training for Deputy Sheriff. Is there a training course for Sheriff, or is the Deputy Sheriff Training program the only thing available? How does this training differ from Act 49 for Constables?
If the Sheriff’s office is not a law enforcement agency in this county, why would law enforcement experience be a requirement? With the duties I have seen, maybe a good administrative background would be more important that having been a police officer?
Again just asking some questions, hoping to get some answers.
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Post by Alex Oreilly on Oct 21, 2013 17:05:48 GMT -5
Excellent and observants questions, FMB.
Maybe a person with a strong accounting and admin ability is better then a law enforcement officer since the Sheriff's department is not on the front lines of answering emergency calls.
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Post by redlock on Oct 21, 2013 22:04:48 GMT -5
Deputy Sheriff,
Who interviewed, and recommended for hire that shitbag referenced in the above article I posted?
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Post by paulkellett on Oct 22, 2013 7:00:20 GMT -5
I went to the scheduled debate last night to hear both sides of this, curious after reading this forum. Muller had a "family emergency" that did not allow him to attend "at the last minute" but was represented quite well by a deputy sheriff who even though pressed into service "at the last minute" had a well written notebook full of comments to present on the Sheriff's behalf. He did say that the Sheriff had implemented "new hiring practices", resulting in a "well diversified force" I left with the impression that the Sheriff had great power over the direction and staffing of the department. I, like gdaddy, attended the Dem functions and heard the Sheriff say he was proud to be a Dem. Mr. Redding did not tell me any of this, as you know, he was not a Dem at the time. After listening to the Deputy last night, either the Sheriff is sending out people to mislead about the "diversified force" or he does have power to make staffing decisions and should be accountable for the lawsuits.
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Post by paulkellett on Oct 22, 2013 18:59:59 GMT -5
FMB,in response to your query, for years, my mother did the required training for deputy sheriffs, It is not required of sheriffs because sheriff is an elected office and it is up to the electorate (statutorily) to decide if the sheriff is up to the post. The intent of the required training is that deputy sheriffs often ascend into the sheriff role and it would be nice if they were well versed in the legalities of the office. The sheriff's office is one that requires management skills, as well as familiarity with the prevailing laws, so as to be able to act and know when those acting in your office are doing so correctly. You are correct in saying that the sheriff in PA is completely different than the police, and probably using the sheriff's office as a "police force" is a bad idea- jurisdiction questions, staffing etc. Do we really need another police force?
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Post by Alex Oreilly on Oct 22, 2013 19:30:20 GMT -5
Interesting Paul, but heres a thought, do we really need a Sheriff's Department or can that work just be divided up between townships and constables and the courthouse for administration work
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Post by paulkellett on Oct 22, 2013 19:55:54 GMT -5
Alex, you are probably right, but I can think of other elected positions that should be eliminated first, as many posts were from the days before computers and electronic record keeping. For the record, not all townships have a police force, and the sheriff deals with prisoners already in custody, not a township or constable duty. But not having an elected position for an administrative post- Like the way you think.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Oct 22, 2013 22:28:42 GMT -5
FMB,in response to your query, for years, my mother did the required training for deputy sheriffs, It is not required of sheriffs because sheriff is an elected office and it is up to the electorate (statutorily) to decide if the sheriff is up to the post. The intent of the required training is that deputy sheriffs often ascend into the sheriff role and it would be nice if they were well versed in the legalities of the office. The sheriff's office is one that requires management skills, as well as familiarity with the prevailing laws, so as to be able to act and know when those acting in your office are doing so correctly. You are correct in saying that the sheriff in PA is completely different than the police, and probably using the sheriff's office as a "police force" is a bad idea- jurisdiction questions, staffing etc. Do we really need another police force? Paul, since the Sheriff is the manager/administrator for the department does he/she really need to know police work? Especially since the Sheriff's department is not a law enforcement agency. Does the Sheriff really need to have the deputy training? Does the CEO of General Motors know how to put on a bumper, or attach the mirrors? Also I found it interesting to know that the Sheriff's office is one of only two or three positions that the candidates can't cross file for? |
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Oct 22, 2013 22:35:59 GMT -5
BTW, how much law enforcement training is required for the office of coroner? As I understand it the coroner is the only official who can arrest the Sheriff.
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The other clerk that was fired by Human Resources and the Commissioners was not a decision made by Muller. You ask why we call Redding a liar - because he is changing the facts to what he wants them to be - not telling the whole truth and slandering the entire Sheriff's Office by what he tells people in private. Maybe you have not been a part of that conversation. 
