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Post by anonymous on Oct 20, 2013 13:42:53 GMT -5
I could not find email addresses for the Straban Township supervisors, but below are email addresses of the county commissioners, the county manager, and the GASD board if you wish to send them an email to make your feelings known about the infrastructure financing that the proposed development off 394 is demanding. This development will be a great benefit to the community, and all we have to do is lay out $60 million for roads, water and sewer, and then watch the tax revenues come rolling in.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
mqually@adamscounty.us
jmartin@adamscounty.us
rphiel@adamscounty.us
COUNTY MANAGER
apenksa@adamscounty.us
GASD BOARD MEMBERS
Todd W. Orner, President
torner@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Kristen E. Woodward, Vice-President
kwoodward@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Kathryn H. Hewitt, Treasurer
khewitt@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
James A. Henderson
jhenderson@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
William D. Hewitt
whewitt@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Sally E. Michael
smichael@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Eldridge G. Moses
emoses@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Holly J. Fox
hfox@gettysburg.k12.pa.us
Keith Bruck
kbruck@gettysburg.k12.pa.us 2013
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Post by Venter on Oct 21, 2013 11:03:33 GMT -5
I'm not going to take this for granted... but you ARE being facetious, aren't you?
You don't actually believe that it would benefit the community by allowing TIF (Tax Increment Financing), do you?
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Oct 21, 2013 12:39:09 GMT -5
I like this description of one of the criticisims of TIF (taken from wikipedia:
And:
It's pretty hard to get development to happen in straban, isn't it? Is this corridor on 394 somewhere in straban?
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Oct 21, 2013 12:44:44 GMT -5
It does say on the description of TIFs on wiki that the article doesn't seem neutral, and it certainly does sound like the author(s) of the wiki article weren't real fond of the type of TIF that's defined on there. Presume this is the same structure of deal that's described there, where the taxes for basic services are frozen?
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Post by paulkellett on Oct 21, 2013 14:46:52 GMT -5
TIF financing should be used (my opinion of course) only to attract new good (manufacturing or tech) jobs. Consider if Lowes comes in, it might put out of business APM in Arendtsville. Kurt Grim who owns APM pays both property taxes and local earned income tax on that business. Lowes has their property taxes forgiven, pays no local earned income on store profits, and we get another piece of vacant commercial property like Keystone lumber and Truss in Biglerville. Lowes may and probably will come to Gettysburg but its arrival should not be paid for with Kurt Grim's tax dollars. This same argument can be made about super Walmart putting out of business Kennies.
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Oct 21, 2013 20:13:04 GMT -5
Paul, I agree. Exactly like the article says, it picks winners or winning regions above and beyond the regular course of business. If a lowes gets preferential tax treatment, then every business of a similar type in a given radius should qualify for equivalent relief.
It reminds me a lot of companies buying new subscribers on the backs of current and long-term subscribers.
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Post by anonymous on Oct 22, 2013 8:46:15 GMT -5
Yes, that was a facetious remark about the alleged benefits of such a development.
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Post by Venter on Oct 22, 2013 9:26:42 GMT -5
Yes, that was a facetious remark about the alleged benefits of such a development. Thanks Anonymous  I try to not take any comments for granted on BoroVENT. Our Members are all over the place, as far as their opinions go!  |
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Post by diogenes on Oct 24, 2013 21:55:29 GMT -5
BTW, Grim purchased Keystone.
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Post by Venter on Oct 24, 2013 22:22:18 GMT -5
BTW, Grim purchased Keystone. Who, or what is Grim? |
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Dexter
Supreme Poster
Posts: 261
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Post by Dexter on Oct 25, 2013 6:36:07 GMT -5
So, if the TIF isn't granted for these types of developments will you people still blame the township for not allowing development to come in? I mean you all can't have it both ways!
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Post by paulkellett on Oct 25, 2013 6:47:42 GMT -5
Dexter, HUGE difference between following your ordinances, having ordinances that make sense; and giving up all tax revenue from a project for years to come. I am not against Lowes coming to Gettysburg, I am just opposed to paying their property taxes for the next 15 years.
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Oct 25, 2013 12:09:26 GMT -5
Dexter - compare and contrast:
* don't allow full-freight tax-paying businesses to come in because of an outdoor display and a couple dozen parking spots that wouldn't be used (no cost to taxpayers, actually a loss)
* push to tie taxpayers into supporting a tax agreement with businesses that could otherwise afford to pay taxes in an area that isn't exactly blighted (if you want to see blight, come out here to the rust belt) (big cost to taxpayers).
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Post by Venter on Oct 25, 2013 15:43:46 GMT -5
Dexter - compare and contrast: * don't allow full-freight tax-paying businesses to come in because of an outdoor display and a couple dozen parking spots that wouldn't be used (no cost to taxpayers, actually a loss) * push to tie taxpayers into supporting a tax agreement with businesses that could otherwise afford to pay taxes in an area that isn't exactly blighted (if you want to see blight, come out here to the rust belt) (big cost to taxpayers). So true. The same Township that's making Tractor Supply, Target, Wal·Mart, etc. jump through hoops. Even considering giving a tax incentive to another business is ludicrous. Why does all this have to happen in the Black Hole Township of Straban? |
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 26, 2013 8:58:35 GMT -5
Dexter - compare and contrast: * don't allow full-freight tax-paying businesses to come in because of an outdoor display and a couple dozen parking spots that wouldn't be used (no cost to taxpayers, actually a loss) * push to tie taxpayers into supporting a tax agreement with businesses that could otherwise afford to pay taxes in an area that isn't exactly blighted (if you want to see blight, come out here to the rust belt) (big cost to taxpayers). So true. The same Township that's making Tractor Supply, Target, Wal·Mart, etc. jump through hoops. Even considering giving a tax incentive to another business is ludicrous. Why does all this have to happen in the Black Hole Township of Straban? Even more ludicrous is considering a tax incentive to a huge upscale over 55 housing development. |
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 26, 2013 9:00:55 GMT -5
I could not find email addresses for the Straban Township supervisors, but below are email addresses of the county commissioners, the county manager, and the GASD board if you wish to send them an email to make your feelings known about the infrastructure financing that the proposed development off 394 is demanding. This development will be a great benefit to the community, and all we have to do is lay out $60 million for roads, water and sewer, and then watch the tax revenues come rolling in. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS mqually@adamscounty.us jmartin@adamscounty.us rphiel@adamscounty.us COUNTY MANAGER apenksa@adamscounty.us GASD BOARD MEMBERS Todd W. Orner, President torner@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Kristen E. Woodward, Vice-President kwoodward@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Kathryn H. Hewitt, Treasurer khewitt@gettysburg.k12.pa.us James A. Henderson jhenderson@gettysburg.k12.pa.us William D. Hewitt whewitt@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Sally E. Michael smichael@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Eldridge G. Moses emoses@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Holly J. Fox hfox@gettysburg.k12.pa.us Keith Bruck kbruck@gettysburg.k12.pa.us 2013 You can't message the Straban Township supervisors directly. You have to go through the township website http://www.strabantownship.com Good luck with that  |
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Dexter
Supreme Poster
Posts: 261
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Post by Dexter on Oct 27, 2013 8:03:28 GMT -5
As I see it, making concessions to lower the tax burdens or making concessions in the ordinances, THAT EXIST AND ARE FULLY OPEN FOR A DEVELOPER TO REVIEW PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING, are simply two options that would allow easier development of a site. Spin however you want. NOW, if you want to talk about evaluating the existing ordinances and proposing common sense changes that would then be fairly impacting any and all future development, then that's a different story.
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Post by lifesaver on Oct 27, 2013 11:35:02 GMT -5
As I see it, making concessions to lower the tax burdens or making concessions in the ordinances, THAT EXIST AND ARE FULLY OPEN FOR A DEVELOPER TO REVIEW PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING, are simply two options that would allow easier development of a site. Spin however you want. NOW, if you want to talk about evaluating the existing ordinances and proposing common sense changes that would then be fairly impacting any and all future development, then that's a different story. That's very true Dexter. However, the old adage comes to mind "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" and just because you can doesn't mean it will happen. |
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Post by getysbg on Oct 27, 2013 19:38:30 GMT -5
I'm not going to take this for granted... but you ARE being facetious, aren't you? You don't actually believe that it would benefit the community by allowing TIF (Tax Increment Financing), do you? When our church applied for the permits to build the new locations, we were told "OK" but that WE would have to pay for the re-building of the intersection due to higher traffic volume. |
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davew
Poster Child
Posts: 308
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Post by davew on Oct 28, 2013 8:31:24 GMT -5
As I see it, making concessions to lower the tax burdens or making concessions in the ordinances, THAT EXIST AND ARE FULLY OPEN FOR A DEVELOPER TO REVIEW PRIOR TO DOING ANYTHING, are simply two options that would allow easier development of a site. Spin however you want. NOW, if you want to talk about evaluating the existing ordinances and proposing common sense changes that would then be fairly impacting any and all future development, then that's a different story. That's very true Dexter. However, the old adage comes to mind "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should" and just because you can doesn't mean it will happen. There is a very real difference. A variance doesn't cost taxpayers anything if the variance doesn't infringe on someone else. TIF financing very clearly shifts costs elsewhere. When TIF is used to benefit someone who doesn't need help (like over 55 developments, that's probably the only demographic left in the US that doesn't have a huge debt burden, or a lowes, etc), and does it by shifting the burden to a group that likely needs it more, that's a cost. A much greater cost than the variance, and it puts the area at a disadvantage in the future because somehow somewhere, the money for basic services needs to come from the rest of the area. |
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Post by Venter on Oct 29, 2013 10:06:07 GMT -5
Someone, somewhere, has always helped support those in need. It's just human nature. Just think where we'd be today if it weren't for Native Americans helping the Pilgrims survive!* * On afterthought, I'm not so sure that's necessarily a GOOD comparison for the point I'm trying to make   |
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