Post by Venter on Oct 3, 2015 19:33:14 GMT -5
++++ I've Tried to be Reasonable - Who Can Help Me With This? ++++
=======================================================
Between the recent ignorance of the Sunshine Act Law by the sitting Adams County Commissioners, and their lack of response
to my Courthouse Security "assault", I would like to seriously consider engaging the ACLU in my attempt to seek closure... and
to potentially open doors to the Adams County Government that we all deserve.
I know there are Members on here who are much more savvy than I am when it comes to legal matters,
and I am asking for your assistance in an ACLU complaint -
or any other avenue that you suggest I should pursue - without the need for funds
If you've been reading Facebook BoroVENT during the past several months, you may have become aware
of recent "questionable actions" by this Administration.
You may recall that I and another member were singled-out
by someone at the Courthouse (where the Commissioners Meetings are held).
Our pictures were provided, printed out for identification purposes, and displayed at the front security desk at the Courthouse,
by someone within the Administration. (although there were two photos displayed, from this point on, I will be referring to my own issue,
not including or speaking for the other person in my explanation).
All attempts by me to discover the concerns which initiated this action, and to identify the actors involved,
have been stonewalled by their Solicitor, and subsequently their "Security Board".
I can't even get the name of the initiator of the process, or whether this is indeed Standard Operating Procedure.
I don't concede that their motive was at all "Security Related" - I believe that someone just wanted to be notified
when and if I showed up for the meeting.
I believe it was no less than abuse of power by some over-zealous administrator, although it could have been more.
Perhaps it was a subtle form of intimidation, to somehow suppress my right to redress the Commissioners
without some sort of repercussion.
Maybe it was all just a mistake by the security guard who inadvertently left the photo face-up on the desk,
which allowed the photo to be visible to the public.
But whatever the actual reason, which may never come to light, the FACT is that someone
went beyond their duty to single me out, just because I had the "audacity" to verbally confront these Commissioners.
The Adams County Solicitor John Hartzell points out in a letter to me, "... nothing impeded your access to public meetings
or County offices on July 29, 2015, or any subsequent date."
Although I may not have been "physically impeded", I was most certainly treated in a manner that is not at all customary,
and a majority of visitors to the Adams County Courthouse will never endure this treatment.
As a matter of fact, they DO NOT even Require ANY Form of Identification to allow entry to the Courthouse!
Other than requiring us to "open an application on our communication devices",
or holding items for us which appear to be potential weapons (including Laser Pointers), until we're ready to leave.
In effect, their "Security Procedures" are nothing more than a paper tiger,
meant to give visitors at least a sense of security.
Depending on whatever their protocol is, I've had otherwise innocuous items pass through unimpeded, or "confiscated" until I left.
(Hell, I'm usually in a rush to get there, and I've left MANY items in my pockets that I know to leave out -
I carry many "tools" in my pockets, which include anywhere from 3 to 5 different knives/blades, sharpeners,
pointy things for working with vinyl sheets and sharpening pencils, etc. ...
but none of them any more "lethal" than your pens, pencils, or belt.
Hell, we don't even need to take off our shoes (well, I probably will NOW)
The only thing that differentiated me from other visitors, is that I had mentioned on our "Closed" Facebook Group* page,
"BoroVENT", that I had intentions of attending the July 29 Commissioner Meeting, and speak my mind. *(by approval only)
Ironically, I was going there in order to speak my mind about -
"The Inability of the Public to Engage the Commissioners in Open Dialogue".
At issue was the apparent lack of public awareness, and improper use of the Executive Sessions clause contained in the Sunshine Act.
I had just become aware that the Commissioners "disallowed conversing with constituents".
A comment posted on our Forum by member, and sitting Commissioner, Marty Qually, prompted me to respond
in sheer amazement, and utter disappointment.
As a result of my experience, I was informed by Commissioner Phiel that if I had an issue, I could take it up
with the "Security Board", and he invited me to their meeting.
I attended a "Security Board" meeting, which by the way, I've been unable to find out anything about -
including being able to determine whether it officially exists as a "proper County entity" and whether it qualifies
as "Public Meeting", defined and governed by the Sunshine Act, or if it is
a "quasi-official" board, assembled to covertly discuss "security" issues.
The meeting was Presided over by the Adams County District Attorney, and was attended
by two Adams County Magisterial Judges, the County Security Manager, the County Chief Clerk,
and last but not least - all three Commissioners - Qually, Phiel, and Martin.
Since a quorum of Commissioners was in attendance at the Security Board Meeting,
it would have been required to be announced in the "Gettysburg Times" Public Notices.
Although I am unable to find this meeting in recent Public Notice announcements, it may have been posted
in a "yearly, or quarterly" notice, combined with others - but I haven't discovered that either.
Regardless of the "legality" of that particular meeting, some circumstances concerning the meeting disturbed me too.
After voicing my displeasure about courthouse security at that meeting, I was expecting them to discuss my
complaints and inquiries about the "photo episode" with me, and we could then determine a plan of action.
Well, in spite of the fact that the sole purpose for my attendance at that particular meeting, and the reason
I was invited was to discuss this with the board - they made no attempt to talk with me about it at all.
After I, and one other person spoke, they decided to go into "Executive Session", and kindly asked us to leave.
They then proceeded to discuss the handling of my complaints behind closed doors.
This is evident, since I've received subsequent correspondence from the County on this issue.
I have been told that the Sunshine Act Law has a rather narrow scope of "exclusions" that allow
for Executive Session, and that "Security" is NOT one of those exemptions.
If that is so, I've been victim to their secrecy again, since I was not allowed to discuss the issue in a timely manner,
and their next "Security" Board meeting isn't until mid-November.
In addition to all of the above, the Right To Know requests we've made to date, have been delayed
beyond the 5 day standard response requirement. They've been extended an additional 30 days, which is allowed by the Sunshine Act.
35 days to even get a response, and THEN the response we get is that we are not privy to the information
we requested, which then needs to be forwarded to the PA Office of Open Records for review, and possible action.
CONSIDER THIS - Whenever I ask a question of the Commissioners, or asked for responses from the Security Board at a PUBLIC Meeting,
I should have/could have received an immediate response from any of the board members present at each meeting.
I'm not asking for anything that wasn't readily available for response at each and every meeting.
BUT, as a result of their stubborn unwillingness to discuss issues IN PUBLIC FORUMS
(their "POLICY", according to Commissioner Phiel) it COSTS EVERY TAXPAYER in Adams County,
thousands of dollars to provide correspondence through their County Solicitor Hartzell.
Effectively, for every action, and re-action, required by our simplest of requests during a meeting,
and due to their "Policy to Ignore", the Solicitor is being PAID to answer us in their stead -
initially responding within 5 days, again in 30 days, and eventually at least one additional time
in response to any Office of Open Records requests.
Regardless of whether or not you believe I even deserve the RIGHT to be answered, their sheer arrogance
in refusing to speak with us at public meetings, eventually costs the Citizens of Adams County untold thousands of dollars per year.
Also consider the expense involved whenever the Solicitor "decides" to continue
the stonewalling procedures - every time he is summoned upon for response,
HE HIMSELF has the ability, and the option, to answer straight-out within the allotted 5 days,
OR to extend that to 30 days, creating additional billable work for himself,
thereby "perpetuating the need for his services".
Just compare this to other professions -
ยท It's been tested and determined, so you go in for your gallbladder operation - the surgeon slices you open,
looks at your gallbladder, and then sutures you back up...
He remarks, "I'll need to remove that in thirty days."
"Why didn't you just remove it while your were right there?"
"Insurance will still cover it, so we'll go back in thirty days"
"But you COULD have and should have done it the first time you were in!"
"But it wasn't absolutely necessary, besides, I had other things to do and that would have rushed me
and cut into my fishing time."
Thirty days later, he cuts in, revisits your gallbladder and decides,
"It's probably bad, but I'd just rather not remove it after all, the Medical books are kinda iffy on whether I should."
You consult with the Hospital, and their specialists determine that it is imperative that it be removed!
First Surgeon, "Yeah, I thought it should have been removed too, but it was my judgement call... "
- so he begrudgingly cuts you open a third time, and finally removes your gallbladder...
and gets to charge your insurance three times!
Unbelievable that we are forced to accept all of this behavior, and even MORE unbelievable that
we are actually PAYING for the County to Defend themselves AGAINST US!
They really should be ashamed of themselves - Arrogance and Disrespect at its finest.
Venter / Gene Golden
File a Complaint :: ACLU of Pennsylvania
Find out how to file a legal complaint with the ACLU of Pennsylvania.
ACLUPA.ORG
=======================================================
Between the recent ignorance of the Sunshine Act Law by the sitting Adams County Commissioners, and their lack of response
to my Courthouse Security "assault", I would like to seriously consider engaging the ACLU in my attempt to seek closure... and
to potentially open doors to the Adams County Government that we all deserve.
I know there are Members on here who are much more savvy than I am when it comes to legal matters,
and I am asking for your assistance in an ACLU complaint -
or any other avenue that you suggest I should pursue - without the need for funds
If you've been reading Facebook BoroVENT during the past several months, you may have become aware
of recent "questionable actions" by this Administration.
You may recall that I and another member were singled-out
by someone at the Courthouse (where the Commissioners Meetings are held).
Our pictures were provided, printed out for identification purposes, and displayed at the front security desk at the Courthouse,
by someone within the Administration. (although there were two photos displayed, from this point on, I will be referring to my own issue,
not including or speaking for the other person in my explanation).
All attempts by me to discover the concerns which initiated this action, and to identify the actors involved,
have been stonewalled by their Solicitor, and subsequently their "Security Board".
I can't even get the name of the initiator of the process, or whether this is indeed Standard Operating Procedure.
I don't concede that their motive was at all "Security Related" - I believe that someone just wanted to be notified
when and if I showed up for the meeting.
I believe it was no less than abuse of power by some over-zealous administrator, although it could have been more.
Perhaps it was a subtle form of intimidation, to somehow suppress my right to redress the Commissioners
without some sort of repercussion.
Maybe it was all just a mistake by the security guard who inadvertently left the photo face-up on the desk,
which allowed the photo to be visible to the public.
But whatever the actual reason, which may never come to light, the FACT is that someone
went beyond their duty to single me out, just because I had the "audacity" to verbally confront these Commissioners.
The Adams County Solicitor John Hartzell points out in a letter to me, "... nothing impeded your access to public meetings
or County offices on July 29, 2015, or any subsequent date."
Although I may not have been "physically impeded", I was most certainly treated in a manner that is not at all customary,
and a majority of visitors to the Adams County Courthouse will never endure this treatment.
As a matter of fact, they DO NOT even Require ANY Form of Identification to allow entry to the Courthouse!
Other than requiring us to "open an application on our communication devices",
or holding items for us which appear to be potential weapons (including Laser Pointers), until we're ready to leave.
In effect, their "Security Procedures" are nothing more than a paper tiger,
meant to give visitors at least a sense of security.
Depending on whatever their protocol is, I've had otherwise innocuous items pass through unimpeded, or "confiscated" until I left.
(Hell, I'm usually in a rush to get there, and I've left MANY items in my pockets that I know to leave out -
I carry many "tools" in my pockets, which include anywhere from 3 to 5 different knives/blades, sharpeners,
pointy things for working with vinyl sheets and sharpening pencils, etc. ...
but none of them any more "lethal" than your pens, pencils, or belt.
Hell, we don't even need to take off our shoes (well, I probably will NOW)
The only thing that differentiated me from other visitors, is that I had mentioned on our "Closed" Facebook Group* page,
"BoroVENT", that I had intentions of attending the July 29 Commissioner Meeting, and speak my mind. *(by approval only)
Ironically, I was going there in order to speak my mind about -
"The Inability of the Public to Engage the Commissioners in Open Dialogue".
At issue was the apparent lack of public awareness, and improper use of the Executive Sessions clause contained in the Sunshine Act.
I had just become aware that the Commissioners "disallowed conversing with constituents".
A comment posted on our Forum by member, and sitting Commissioner, Marty Qually, prompted me to respond
in sheer amazement, and utter disappointment.
As a result of my experience, I was informed by Commissioner Phiel that if I had an issue, I could take it up
with the "Security Board", and he invited me to their meeting.
I attended a "Security Board" meeting, which by the way, I've been unable to find out anything about -
including being able to determine whether it officially exists as a "proper County entity" and whether it qualifies
as "Public Meeting", defined and governed by the Sunshine Act, or if it is
a "quasi-official" board, assembled to covertly discuss "security" issues.
The meeting was Presided over by the Adams County District Attorney, and was attended
by two Adams County Magisterial Judges, the County Security Manager, the County Chief Clerk,
and last but not least - all three Commissioners - Qually, Phiel, and Martin.
Since a quorum of Commissioners was in attendance at the Security Board Meeting,
it would have been required to be announced in the "Gettysburg Times" Public Notices.
Although I am unable to find this meeting in recent Public Notice announcements, it may have been posted
in a "yearly, or quarterly" notice, combined with others - but I haven't discovered that either.
Regardless of the "legality" of that particular meeting, some circumstances concerning the meeting disturbed me too.
After voicing my displeasure about courthouse security at that meeting, I was expecting them to discuss my
complaints and inquiries about the "photo episode" with me, and we could then determine a plan of action.
Well, in spite of the fact that the sole purpose for my attendance at that particular meeting, and the reason
I was invited was to discuss this with the board - they made no attempt to talk with me about it at all.
After I, and one other person spoke, they decided to go into "Executive Session", and kindly asked us to leave.
They then proceeded to discuss the handling of my complaints behind closed doors.
This is evident, since I've received subsequent correspondence from the County on this issue.
I have been told that the Sunshine Act Law has a rather narrow scope of "exclusions" that allow
for Executive Session, and that "Security" is NOT one of those exemptions.
If that is so, I've been victim to their secrecy again, since I was not allowed to discuss the issue in a timely manner,
and their next "Security" Board meeting isn't until mid-November.
In addition to all of the above, the Right To Know requests we've made to date, have been delayed
beyond the 5 day standard response requirement. They've been extended an additional 30 days, which is allowed by the Sunshine Act.
35 days to even get a response, and THEN the response we get is that we are not privy to the information
we requested, which then needs to be forwarded to the PA Office of Open Records for review, and possible action.
CONSIDER THIS - Whenever I ask a question of the Commissioners, or asked for responses from the Security Board at a PUBLIC Meeting,
I should have/could have received an immediate response from any of the board members present at each meeting.
I'm not asking for anything that wasn't readily available for response at each and every meeting.
BUT, as a result of their stubborn unwillingness to discuss issues IN PUBLIC FORUMS
(their "POLICY", according to Commissioner Phiel) it COSTS EVERY TAXPAYER in Adams County,
thousands of dollars to provide correspondence through their County Solicitor Hartzell.
Effectively, for every action, and re-action, required by our simplest of requests during a meeting,
and due to their "Policy to Ignore", the Solicitor is being PAID to answer us in their stead -
initially responding within 5 days, again in 30 days, and eventually at least one additional time
in response to any Office of Open Records requests.
Regardless of whether or not you believe I even deserve the RIGHT to be answered, their sheer arrogance
in refusing to speak with us at public meetings, eventually costs the Citizens of Adams County untold thousands of dollars per year.
Also consider the expense involved whenever the Solicitor "decides" to continue
the stonewalling procedures - every time he is summoned upon for response,
HE HIMSELF has the ability, and the option, to answer straight-out within the allotted 5 days,
OR to extend that to 30 days, creating additional billable work for himself,
thereby "perpetuating the need for his services".
Just compare this to other professions -
ยท It's been tested and determined, so you go in for your gallbladder operation - the surgeon slices you open,
looks at your gallbladder, and then sutures you back up...
He remarks, "I'll need to remove that in thirty days."
"Why didn't you just remove it while your were right there?"
"Insurance will still cover it, so we'll go back in thirty days"
"But you COULD have and should have done it the first time you were in!"
"But it wasn't absolutely necessary, besides, I had other things to do and that would have rushed me
and cut into my fishing time."
Thirty days later, he cuts in, revisits your gallbladder and decides,
"It's probably bad, but I'd just rather not remove it after all, the Medical books are kinda iffy on whether I should."
You consult with the Hospital, and their specialists determine that it is imperative that it be removed!
First Surgeon, "Yeah, I thought it should have been removed too, but it was my judgement call... "
- so he begrudgingly cuts you open a third time, and finally removes your gallbladder...
and gets to charge your insurance three times!
Unbelievable that we are forced to accept all of this behavior, and even MORE unbelievable that
we are actually PAYING for the County to Defend themselves AGAINST US!
They really should be ashamed of themselves - Arrogance and Disrespect at its finest.
Venter / Gene Golden
File a Complaint :: ACLU of Pennsylvania
Find out how to file a legal complaint with the ACLU of Pennsylvania.
ACLUPA.ORG