GNMP wants Football and Biser Trail Land back from Rec Park
Mar 1, 2017 20:18:31 GMT -5
lifesaver likes this
Post by Venter on Mar 1, 2017 20:18:31 GMT -5
This is a copy of the ongoing discussion on FB...
Carol Rebert
February 16 at 9:04am
Wow. Apparently part of the Biser trail and the football fields were mistakenly placed on NPS land. After decades of use by the community the NPS wants them removed so the area can be made "clean". Seriously?
Scott Ashton No way!
February 16 at 9:05am
Michael P Redding Screw em!
February 16 at 9:06am · Edited
Kerry Feaster Ridiculous
February 16 at 9:10am
Scott Ashton How long has the trail been there? People have gotten used to/depend on it. Sorry NPS, I typically don't object when you tear stuff up (Lee's HQ buildings, Cyclorama Building), but this is one time when the present - in terms of health, wellbeing, quality of life - supersedes "History". (I use quotes because the importance of the area in the battle is questionable. There was probably more fighting at Mcds and KFC, so they need to get rid of those first. Oh and get rid of the whole of Colt Park too).
February 16 at 9:34am · Edited
Carol Rebert Wait! You mean the NPS should consider that there is also a living, breathing community to consider here? That's crazy talk. Sarcasm off.
February 16 at 9:26am
Joe Robinson Happen to live in Colt Park, you buying my house and relocating us too?
February 16 at 11:37am
James Kodei Check yourself on colt park Holmes.
February 16 at 11:47am
James Kodei Scott Ashton, not you joe
February 16 at 11:47am
Scott Ashton How do you mean James
February 16 at 11:59am
James Kodei Just responding to the getting rid of colt park comment ya made.
February 16 at 12:00pm
Scott Ashton That was sarcasm James. Meaning the NPS are happy to F with the Rec Park but not Colt Park or Mcds where - in my and many others opinions - more action happened. Their thought process is backwards.
February 16 at 12:07pm
James Kodei I'm aware it was sarcasm as was mine, sort of. Just stay the f outta colt park if ya know what's good for ya, ya hear?
February 16 at 12:08pm
Scott Ashton Oh I agree James. I don't want them to touch that either, but plenty out there (tourists and regular visitors mainly) wouldn't mind.
February 16 at 12:20pm
Annette Ritchie heck lets just let the NPS take over everything that way they can control everything and everybody's taxes will be out of the ball park, then people can move out of Gettysburg and it will be truly a ghost town........that is what they are hoping for.........i am just sick and tired of the NPS saying this is battlefield and that is battlefield. hell if they found a toenail they would say it was from a soldier and take it over. poo on all of them............sorry...............
February 16 at 9:26am
Jim Mackey Not saying I am for or against this but when you look at the county mapping it is very clear that the property line runs down the middle of the football field and the trail is on the other side of the football field. Not sure who approved the contstruction of the field or the trail but they should have checked the property lines first.
February 16 at 9:40am
Scott Ashton You're absolutely right Jim, and judging by the newspaper article they have every right to the land. But they don't HAVE to claim it. A mistake was made, but this might be one those of occasions where one should just say oh well, we f*cked up, and move on. It is not just some unused parcel of land in the middle of nowhere, but a community area that people depend on. I think that the pros vs cons need to be thoroughly assessed before they just cry "it's on our land so it must GO!".
February 16 at 9:46am
Scott Ashton And I can't think of any Pros. No visitor is going to visit that land once it became "battlefield" again. There'll be nothing to see.
February 16 at 9:48am · Edited
Scott Ashton I'm deadly serious about what I said too. If they get this done they better start forcing people out of their homes in Colt Park and force Mcds and KFC to move. Obviously I don't want either to happen, especially the former, I'm just making a point. From my understanding there was more action in those areas, which is the sole reason/excuse* (*delete as applicable) that the NPS always gives as justification for restoring land. And they WOULD like to do just that (I found out years and years ago they were eyeing up - for example - Mcds, but their hands are apparently tied....or perhaps they don't want to go up against a multi-billion dollar company, whether it is locally franchised or not). There should be some similar sort of "protection" in this case, so they can't just go after easy targets. Those who know, know that they would gleefully tear up the whole of Colt Park (which should have never been built according to some) and half of Steinwehr if they were King. But they can't and likely will never be able to. This area should be treated no differently. This has the potential to upset many more people than the removal of Lee's HQ Hotel did, because it would be directly disrupting a community instead of mostly visitors.
February 16 at 10:19am · Edited
Karen Reedy Shupe Squatters rights law should protect GARA. If you use your neighbors land for decades and they don't say anything then that land becomes yours.
February 16 at 10:14am
Scott Ashton Possession is 9/10ths of the law.
February 16 at 10:24am
Carrie Bixler I say it is time for a protest in Gettysburg against the NPS! Just saying if they had it their way there would be No Gettysburg homes, businesses or anything else! People would come to see empty battlefields and drive on dirt roads! Really? This one angers me to no end that football field has been there for YEARS not only did my grandparents and parents attend and participate in games but also my children and myself! Carol Rebert do you mind if I share this on my page I can not read it in the times online I don't have a subscription I would not pay for something that I would rather wipe my ass with anyway!
February 16 at 10:19am · Edited
Carol Rebert You are welcome to share Carrie. You may have to copy and paste it though for it to appear. It just is not right.
February 16 at 10:21am
Michelle Nett Smyers Carrie, do you want to protest? Or riot? Because just like all those punk ass kids in Berkley, we could torch stuff, and break stuff and take all our aggression out on all kinds of stuff!
February 16 at 11:25am
Gene Golden Michelle Nett Smyers, we won't invite the college kids
I don't think many of them read BoroVENT, or the local papers, for that matter - but I may be wrong.
Charles Strauss, maybe you can muster some MSM Students to actually become PART of history and change?
February 16 at 11:52am
Michelle Nett Smyers Hey Gene...we could all wear masks too and still BLAME them for it!!
February 16 at 11:53am
Gene Golden Well truthfully, Scott SHOULD wear a mask, regardless.
February 16 at 1:54pm
David Spitzer I say do what they do a forced land grab and evict them from our town
February 16 at 10:44am
Scott Ashton How does one just "discover" this anyway, that's what I wanna know. How can it go unnoticed for decades and then suddenly somebody realizes right around the same time we are discussing the Casino. Seems fishy. I would hope they wouldn't exploit the Casino issue as justification for why they need to "save land".
February 16 at 10:50am · Edited
Michelle Nett Smyers Im sure they only just "noticed" it since removing all the trees so now the park and all the buildings are visible to the tourists on Confederate Ave so the easiest way to stir the pot is to suddenly realize boundary lines. Frankly, Id like to see a survey done before anything else
February 16 at 11:39am · Edited
James Kodei I mean boarders are shitty to start, there's lots of contests state to state, some I believe we're caused by da real GW when he was surveying.
February 16 at 11:50am
Gene Golden 50 years ago Times article in today's paper:
... strong winds topping 45 mph toppled a 60ft tall sign at the Cannon Cafeteria on Steinwehr...
So evidently, prior to 1967, a sixty foot sign was not offensive to the sensitivities of the Borough or Park Service, but a football field is today.
BTW, (without looking it up to verify my memory) a 12ft sign is the ridiculous height limitation today.
Even the Borough allows "grandfathering".
I think it's time for the GNMP to suck it up, and leave this one alone.
The last time BoroVENT was forced into a PROTEST, was to save the "Rosensteel Plaque" from becoming a dusty relic in the basement of the new visitors center.
February 16 at 11:30am
Scott Ashton I didn't know BV was responsible for or helped contribute to that. Interesting.
February 16 at 11:46am
Gene Golden We stood on the corner of Steinwehr an Taneytown with picket signs and all.
It was November 17, 20something, during the Remembrance Day visits.
February 16 at 2:04pm
Scott Ashton Gene What was their justification for not putting it on the wall where it now hangs? Were they trying to erase all memory of the former museum or something? Even now, if you don't know it's there, it's not overly noticeable. As you know it's not prominently displayed, like encircled by lights or anything.
February 16 at 4:06pm · Edited
Gene Golden Last time I saw it, years ago, it was displayed on the wall... I think.
February 16 at 3:43pm
Scott Ashton Yes it's on the wall, Gene, but kinda in a corner and not overly prominent.
So what was their reason for not wanting to display it, do you recall?
February 16 at 4:05pm
Gene Golden I guess because it was "no longer the Rosensteel Collection"?
February 18 at 8:57pm
Gene Golden If this comes down to the trail and football field and whatever buildings may be part of that, being removed I have a suggestion...
IF the Borough would allow it (or GARA, in this case) Gettysburg Signs is willing to donate a 4' x 20' Banner to erect in their place, that will face the GNMP, to read:
"Coming Soon to this Location -
Gettysburg Battlefield Hooters!"
Or...
"The GNMP Took this Local Field Away From Midget Football Kids"
February 16 at 11:38am · Edited
Gene Golden Right NOW, if GARA allowed it ( Jacob Woodland Schindel ), I will donate a banner to read something like:
"Don't Let GNMP Take Our Kids' Football Field!"
Or... "GNMP, Leave Our Kids' Field Alone",
and add a website address for people to read about it.
I think 6,000 plus acres should be just about enough to tell a battle's history.
If they need more than that, then they are evidently not doing it too well.
Whenever an entity like the GNMP, or the Borough, fixate on an issue, or a certain person happens to get a hair up their ass, bad things can happen.
If common sense and cooler heads prevail, it is better for all involved.
February 16 at 11:45am
Carol Rebert Exactly. And this isn't just a borough matter. Doesn't the Rec Park "belong" to all of us?
February 16 at 11:47am
Carrie Bixler Gene I love this idea if you need any help contacting anyone let me know my mother organizes the bus trips from there and is in there every week
February 16 at 11:47am
Gene Golden Carrie, the first hurdle would be for the GARA to even allow this.
BUT, if a certain bus, would just happen to be parked with a banner on it's side, facing the parkland toward W. Confederate Avenue, OR if it were parked on a public street near Johns Avenue, or even in a parking lot at the GNMP Visitor Center lot...
OR, if it drove around a bit and slowly made its way throughout Gettysburg and the GNMP!!!
Political speech is a PROTECTED Speech, not commercial.
If buses are allowed on the Battlefield for Tours, then they can drive through with POLITICAL MESSAGES unimpaired.
And if NOT allowed?
Holy shit!
Can you spell ACLU?
February 16 at 12:15pm
Gene Golden Carol Rebert , as a citizen of Cumberland Township, I am also represented by our Supervisors because we "share" GARA through our tax contributions to the "Borough" Park.
February 16 at 2:06pm
Gene Golden But... When common sense and cooler head FAIL, that's when WE at BoroVENT need to step up to the scrimmage line, as a "Special Teams Unit"
And, I think many would agree, we've probably been called "Special" before
February 16 at 11:47am
Scott Ashton Make it Special Teams Fighting Unit, or STFU for short 😂
February 16 at 11:58am
Gene Golden "GNMP = Grab No More Parkland!"
February 16 at 11:54am
Scott Ashton "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men…. That WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE OF THESE ENDS, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR TO ABOLISH IT, AND TO INSTITUTE NEW GOVERNMENT, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".
This should also apply to the NPS at a local level, as they are the Federal Government. ;-) As Gene said, when they start taking too much land WE THE PEOPLE should be able to stand up and say NO. Because in all honesty, all of the land belongs to US. They've been incredibly fortunate to cast their net over an increasingly wide radius for long enough now. They've had a good run, but it's time for them to take an extended water break.
February 16 at 12:01pm · Edited
Carol Rebert A freaking men Scott!
February 16 at 11:58am
Scott Ashton Haha thanks
February 16 at 12:01pm
David Spitzer Scott Ashton stop talking like that too many people here have no idea what your saying it's too hard for them to understand simple language
February 16 at 12:02pm
Scott Ashton David lol
February 16 at 12:09pm
Bruce Hollinger Now you all know how the ranchers feel about hoarding all the land.
February 16 at 6:07pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner So for the last 40+ years it was OK and NOW they choose to squawk about it? Maybe the Rec Park should send them a bill for mowing and taking care of it.
February 16 at 12:24pm
Gene Golden Carrie Bixler and others, issues like these become a rallying cry for a common sense solution.
Unfortunately, as we are well aware, common sense is not so common after all.
It is so enticing for people to want to get involved, but it does take a certain resolve to actually go through the motions, and deal with the possible outcomes.
Anyone who is contemplating any sort of action on their own, or who are considering anything I throw out there in moments of anger, or disgust, need to commit.
A plan of action would need to be formed, and then, after exhausting the most sensible options, we could consider the more "visual" and "effective" means of becoming heard.
I already have a slew of ideas roaming through my head, and it's early yet.
It would be nice if somebody who is close to this, like Jacob Jake Schindel, would keep us abreast of the "proper channel" attempts to expedite a solution to this issue.
Let us see the letters being written to the GNMP, in your efforts to do this "diplomatically".
Let us see their replies to these pleas.
When all diplomacy efforts fail, then allow the people themselves to make an effort to preserve what is, for all intents and purposes, THEIRS.
February 16 at 12:27pm
Gene Golden This gives us something to talk about on Saturday!
Plus, don't forget... CAKE!
February 16 at 12:28pm
Sandra Young They are just now claiming the property, bs
February 16 at 1:06pm
Scott Ashton Just say they got their way...what they gonna do, put a big wall or fence up? Because if not how would one tell the difference between grass and, um...grass? Because they're not gonna put out any more monuments. Even so, do ya really think people would stay off the fenced side and not play with their ball or whatever on there? I think not. I don't think many would give a damn whether it is NPS land or not even though as you probably know, any leisure activities (aside from cycling, segway-ing, etc) are forbidden on the battlefield proper. It's pretty hard to expect somebody to only play on one patch of grass when the day before they were playing on another patch of grass. It's insanity. I might have been able to understand the NPS' point of view more if they were actually going to do something with this land rather than just have it as another piece of.....grass, that is indistinguishable from the grass next to it. They have so many pieces of land now such as the old Country Club that was supposed to be having interpretive markers, etc, installed, yet nothing's changed and that's been like, what, 5 or 6 years since they obtained that land? They have more land than they know what to do with/can afford to do anything with/have the manpower and time to do anything with. Is Cemetery Ridge even finished yet?
February 16 at 1:35pm · Edited
Norma Herring You have got to be kidding! They are determined to turn this damn town into a ghost town!!!! I have always said that and it is going to happen unless we stop it!
February 16 at 1:54pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Listen everyone, Gene has made a good point and that is we have to rally together on this. With that said, however, I seriously doubt the NPS is going to give in. So, considering there will be some expense in moving the field and the fitness trail, IF the ground is properly surveyed so that everyone knows exactly where the boundaries are, I will personally round up some 320 foot measuring tapes, round up as many volunteers as possible and go out and mark where a new field can be placed. Then we will have to go from there, keeping in mind that a lot of the property on that side/end of the park is pretty much like wetlands if it rains enough.
Secondly, since this will cost money, I will go before GARA and the rec director Jackie and, provided I can round up the equipment needed, I will offer to organize some public dinners out of the Sterner building with profits going to defray the costs of moving the field and trail. Of course I will need assitance with all that but Im throwing down the offer to step up and help.
February 16 at 2:00pm
Carol Rebert Only if plan "A" fails though.
Thanks Michelle.
February 16 at 2:13pm
Scott Ashton What's Plan A Carol. Didn't even know there was a Plan yet
February 16 at 2:23pm
Carol Rebert I meant tell NPS to move on and let things as they have been for decades.
February 16 at 2:26pm
Scott Ashton OK
February 16 at 2:30pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner Michelle, you know Cookie and I will help serve.
February 16 at 3:15pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Yes Jeanne, I suspected you would and I appreciate that!
February 16 at 3:43pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Jeanne knows I can cook....it's been a well kept secret until now!
February 16 at 4:33pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner Michelle Nett Smyers Sorry, I didn't know it was a secret.
February 16 at 4:38pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Its not really....anyone who has been to carnival knows I can cook. And with any luck, I'll be cooking a lot more in the near future.
February 16 at 4:40pm
Randal Wright Count me help also if needed
February 18 at 12:23pm
Gene Golden Like Michelle Nett Smyers said, if it hadn't been for their removal of the damned trees in the first place, the building would have never been exposed!
This was not by accident.
I believe it was a deliberate action by the GNMP to expose these areas, so the "Purists" could bitch about having to see something besides trees.
I don't believe that the GNMP should be entitled to ONE single square foot beyond what someone is willing to sell to them, at this point in time.
They've had 154 years to clarify these issues, (okay 100 years as a "National Park") but they can stop now.
I want to know WHO initiated this land-grab, WHEN it was begun, and WHY it's being implemented now?
Who wants to do the Right To Know on this one?
Not it!
February 16 at 2:14pm
Jeremy Nalewak Federal government should not own such lands actually.
February 16 at 2:30pm
Scott Ashton Tell us more
February 16 at 2:31pm
Jeremy Nalewak I need to get to my computer typing on the phone will kill me. Stand by.
February 16 at 2:32pm
Jeremy Nalewak Article 1 section 8 of the US Constitution gives the instances where the federal government can own lands.
"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.”
I would say a national park does not fit any of these criteria.
February 16 at 3:03pm · Edited
Jeremy Nalewak I've got more to post but have to get my daughter.
February 16 at 3:11pm
Scott Ashton Interesting Jeremy thanks
February 16 at 3:31pm
Gene Golden What, your daughter knows more than you do about this stuff?
I'm impressed 😅
February 16 at 3:51pm
Jeremy Nalewak Good one Gene.
February 16 at 3:54pm
Michelle Kennedy Please tell me what I'm reading is a joke. The NPS wants land that visitors could benefit from ALONG WITH residents....mind you....WTH do they need it for?! I'm beyond words. 😠
February 16 at 2:50pm
Ray Eiker Seems to me A LOT of people have been fu#$$%n up. In too much of a hurry and not checking things out properly.
February 16 at 2:53pm
Scott Ashton Exactly Michelle. At this point it seems like they want it out of principle more than any other nonexistent reason. I have a funny feeling they're not going to install a waterslide or anything.
February 16 at 3:38pm
Gene Golden "But Mommy, it's MINE!"
"You little spoiled brat, you have more than you need already." 😠
Let it go.
February 16 at 3:54pm · Edited
Maggie Koenig I kind of feel like people are only ticked off because its the NPS. Its land they own why shouldn't they be able to do what they want with it?
February 16 at 3:54pm
Scott Ashton Not at all Maggie, at least not in my opinion. As I stated initially, I have actually typically been PRO-NPS in the past. Just not on this occasion, sorry.
In answer to your question, yes it is technically THEIR land (even though land belongs to ALL of US), but just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD, as the popular phrase goes.
February 16 at 4:16pm · Edited
Scott Ashton Also Maggie, they won't actually DO anything with it, once they got it. History tells us that. That's part of the problem and what makes it even more infuriating.
February 16 at 4:14pm · Edited
Michelle Kennedy Maggie, you're correct. However, why now after all these years? What could they possibly need it for? Are the tourists truly going to care about that area waaaaaaay off the road. Hell, the rate things are going everybody move out of the borough and surrounding areas. The whole freaking area was a damn battlefield AND a TOWN with RESIDENTS before the war. Enough is enough. I'm sure if they survey every single tourist who comes here if that part of the trail should stay or go, IF they have any common sense (IF) they could care less or say let GARA continue on as usual. They keep the area maintained. It isn't an eye sore. I'm perplexed. Is the dog park in this "zone" they're now wanting?? Not yelling nor being lippy at you darlin....just ranting in general!
February 16 at 4:15pm · Edited
Scott Ashton I think we need a bit of humor. May I present to you Mr. Unkar Plutt, leader of the NPS, Jakku Division. youtu.be/LAs0bpzBJgk
Star Wars - That's Mine!
Some space punks steal property from a hardworking citizen of Jakku.
YOUTUBE.COM
February 16 at 4:21pm
Gene Golden If you look at this image, it appears that the football field may not be affected too much... IF the green line is in the right place.
It does appear that the Biser Trail weaves in and out of the boundary a few times.
Heaven forbid that people should be allowed to walk on Hallowed Ground.
February 16 at 7:03pm
Gene Golden Click on the photo to enlarge.
I drew a pink line around what I think is the disputed area.
If so, this is EXTREMELY petty on the part of the GNMP, and they should be ashamed to even consider this "encroachment".
February 16 at 7:05pm
Gene Golden Green line is Border.
Grey line is the Biser Trail path.
You can actually see the lines of the football field, and they appear to be safe... as long as nobody runs out of bounds on the southwest side.
February 16 at 7:07pm
Scott Ashton Despicable. And all for WHAT?
February 16 at 7:09pm · Edited
Scott Ashton They let people stomp ALL over the battlefield and depending on number of people and weather conditions it can get really torn up in places. So if they allow that, this trail should be permitted to stay and shouldn't be relocated. Period. OK, by all means change the Park boundaries on paper if they must, but just leave stuff be. It's not as if they are going to prohibit people from walking on the area once they've "restored" it.
February 16 at 7:20pm
Michelle Nett Smyers The football field is actually a little bigger than what is there (which is a paint outline of a soccer field-I know that because I marked/painted the lines on those soccer fields). I believe it is the very corner of the football field the NPS is bitching about.
February 16 at 10:19pm
Michelle Kennedy I'd really like to know what in the hell the park service is going to do with this land. This is ludicrous 😠
February 17 at 3:56pm
Donna Weikert Abell I helped build that football field, it's part of the rec park, we raised money and built the darn thing, tell the park service to go sc...themselves
February 16 at 9:29pm
Bernie Flax Lefty Biser and his family deserve better than this they donated and dedicated the trail in memorial for their 2 sons that were killed in a terrible accident WOW How does that even happen?
February 16 at 10:29pm
Gene Golden Yes, but "What about all of the Civil War soldiers who gave their lives, so that the GNMP can claim all the land?" [sarcasm off]
February 17 at 11:28am
Bernie Flax Just sad.....Lefty has dedicated his Life to the Gettysburg community and the pursuit of good health in his community....... they better claim the whole town a national park there was blood shed on every square inch of Gettysburg
February 17 at 12:35pm
Ray Eiker They have enough damn land.They Will never miss it. Tell them to go pound sand up their ass.
February 16 at 10:36pm
Alan Leeti Wow! Can't they cooperate a little on this one? Makes me not want to renew my Gettysburg Foundation membership!
February 17 at 3:24pm · Edited
Gene Golden Michelle Nett Smyers, I thought the circle in the middle looked strange
I say, just keep the field intact, and if there's no razor-wire in the endzone, just keep playing.
Of course, knowing the GNMP, they'll put one of those crooked wooden fences up, and if the ball falls into their yard, the Park Nazis, sorry, I mean the Park Watch Zealots, will keep your ball.
Every neighborhood has one of "those" people.
February 17 at 11:29am
Gene Golden Okay, so all we know so far is what was said at the Borough Council meeting, and reported in the paper.
Jake Schindel is the only person on here who can fill us in on the details.
Borough Manager Gable claims that the Park won't be swayed, but I wouldn't consider his individual efforts to be the end-all solution.
February 17 at 11:40am
John Newbold It used to be (in PA) if you were on someone else's property for 21 years or more that it was yours by adverse possession.
February 17 at 1:55pm
Scott Ashton Seems reasonable. Somebody else said 10 years. Also reasonable.
February 17 at 4:07pm
Paul Kellett can't adverse possess the government or big timber companies. The rule is "openly and notoriously" for 21 years in PA but an exception exists for unfenced timber land and the government.
February 17 at 5:08pm
Gene Golden Paul Kellett, of COURSE there is an exception for government :/
February 18 at 11:42am
Kim Bixler-Smith 100% agree
February 18 at 5:28pm
Donna Weikert Abell Then they should pay he park for all the maintenance over the years, the path, and pay for the football field, that was build almost 40 years ago
February 18 at 7:05pm
Donna Weikert Abell Now where will the Generals youth football team play, the warriors who built the field pays thousands of dollars a year to play on the high school field
February 18 at 7:07pm
Ray Eiker We need a Congressional act on the Park Service. They want to be hogs and own all the frickin land. They have enough they can't take care of.
February 18 at 8:40pm
Ken Kessler Start approaching your local Congressional reps. About 12 words placed in an annual appropriations bill could, in all probability, resolve this.
February 19 at 12:25am
Ray Eiker Can I please pick the 12 words for them?
February 19 at 12:32am
Ken Kessler Leave that to the pros.
February 19 at 12:33am
Ray Eiker OK
February 19 at 12:41am
Randal Wright Wait!!! Did u just call Congress pros? More like EMPTY suites. ....
February 24 at 10:07am
Gene Golden One little sexual harassment charge, and boy did THIS get buried quickly!
This is an illustration from an old book, that I keep on my bulletin board - just because I really like it.
But, today I looked at it with the Biser Trail and GNMP issue in mind.
I think the caption sums it up beautifully, and is very relevant to this situation.
We need to be the Porcupines!!!
February 23 at 7:36pm
Gene Golden In today's paper, it indicated that this is just over ONE ACRE!
While I may understand that the GNMP is doing this because... if they let one entity do this, even a Borough, then they can't bitch when someone squats on their/our lands.
Have our Representatives gotten involved in this yet?
If not, why not?
WHEN DO WE PROTEST?
February 23 at 7:40pm
Scott Ashton That tiger would be hurting if it got a spine in its foot. And no, Borovent Vultures (Borovultures?), I am not advocating for violence I believe in nonviolence. Just a observational metaphor.
Similarly, i am fond of the tale of the Snake and the Mongoose. No suitably unqualified person/animal would dare approach/fight a snake. But a Mongoose would. Be the Mongoose. Although in reality I actually love snakes and I am unfearful of them. I'm indifferent to Mongooses (Mongeese? Mongai?) having not experienced one. But they seem pretty badass.
February 23 at 8:08pm
Timothy W Seigman I agree that the football field and trail should stay. But i fined it ironic that people only complain when it is being threatened to be taken away...but know one cares that gara charges midget football $4,000 - $5,000 a year to use that field that the Boro did not spend one dime in building. It is basically a grass cutting fee. For gara to do that to a youth non profit organization is ridiculous.
February 27 at 8:02am · Edited
Donna Weikert Abell I agree, I was with midget football when we raised the money and built the field, where was the park service then saying it was their land, and the other midget football team pays that amount to the school for playing on their field, the field our taxes help support
February 27 at 8:29am
Timothy W Seigman It's aways about the money not about the youth of today.
February 27 at 9:17am
Donna Weikert Abell I know between the 2 midgets teams they pay 10,000 a year to play on fields, and people get tired of kids fund raisers
February 27 at 9:21am
Tom Mckenney I have seen in India mongooses attack and kill cobras. Always rooted for the mongoose.
February 27 at 12:26pm
Paul Kellett Okay, has the park service ever swapped land? Absolutely. They traded over an acre to the college in exchange for an easement on their playing fields. This kind of thing does happen. The Straban ball fields were once some sort of government facility. The U.S. post office building in D.C. is now leased to a Trump Hotel. It appears that we are being bullied.
February 27 at 4:45pm
Alan Leeti Yes remember that whole college swap involving the railroad cut well. It can happen.
February 27 at 11:49pm · Edited
Gene Golden Consider this - the GNMP has no problems fast-tracking the process when they want to TAKE some land [Wills House][Country Club]
According to this site, things can be done.
I'm not going to read all of it, but it could be in here! : www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/43/1716
"(a) Authorization and limitations on authority of Secretary of the Interior and Secretary of Agriculture
A tract of public land or interests therein may be disposed of by exchange by the Secretary under this Act and a tract of land or interests therein within the National Forest System may be disposed of by exchange by the Secretary of Agriculture under applicable law where the Secretary concerned determines that the public interest will be well served by making that exchange: Provided, That when considering public interest the Secretary concerned shall give full consideration to better Federal land management and the needs of State and local people, including needs for lands for the economy, community expansion, recreation areas, food, fiber, minerals, and fish and wildlife and the Secretary concerned finds that the values and the objectives which Federal lands or interests to be conveyed may serve if retained in Federal ownership are not more than the values of the non-Federal lands or interests and the public objectives they could serve if acquired."
43 U.S. Code § 1716 - Exchanges of public lands or interests therein within the…
LAW.CORNELL.EDU
Yesterday at 9:28am
Gene Golden "... the public interest will be well served by making that exchange: Provided, ...shall give full consideration to better Federal land management and the needs of State AND LOCAL PEOPLE, including needs for lands for the economy, community expansion, RECREATION AREAS... finds that the values and the objectives which Federal lands or interests to be conveyed may serve if retained in Federal ownership are NOT MORE THAN THE VALUES OF THE NON-FEDERAL LANDS OR INTERESTS AND THE PUBLIC OBJECTIVES THEY COULD SERVE IF ACQUIRED."
Capitalized for emphasis, by me.
So I doubt that this land could be argued to be "more valuable" to the 6,000 plus acres, and growing, GNMP, than the value to the community at this point. :/
Yesterday at 9:43am · Edited
Ken Kessler GeneGolden as you know I don't have a dog in this fight, but you are getting much warmer with regards to my original comment that "12 words in an appropriation bill" could resolve this. Keep going down this path and you will find your answer grasshopper!.
Yesterday at 9:52am
Gene Golden Thanks Ken!
I'm already working towards the "what if?" scenario.
If our national "elected officials" are not already aware of this situation, then it's due to the lack of skills, or effort, by our local "elected officials".
"We the people" already elected them to protect OUR interests, and they are aware.
IF they fail, then WE get involved for ourselves.
Yesterday at 9:57am
Ken Kessler I did this type of work for USDA and Dept of Interior. It is doable. Just remember the two fundamental issues, Authorization and Appropriations. One does not happen without the other. Start with a call to your Rep's Chief of Staff, do half the work then ask them to polish that turd and move it thru the system.
Yesterday at 9:58am
Gene Golden I know, I know... patience is NOT one of my virtues
Yesterday at 9:59am
Ken Kessler Respectfully, I doubt that that piece of your communities baseball diamond is real high on their legislative priority list right now. If it is something you want done, come up with some proposed language which cites the rationale contained in the USC Code, hand it to them and let them finalize it. Try to find other examples where something like this was done in the past. One of the keys is to let them think it was their idea and of course let them take all the credit if it happens.
Can't believe you didn't have a comment on my analogy of a "turd working its way through the system."
Yesterday at 10:11am
Gene Golden I STILL say a protest is in order, before one shovel is allowed to hit that ground.
Has WGAL been notified of how ridiculous this is?
What is the latest on the homefront, Jake Schindel and Jax Dwyer?
I saw that Weaver was quoted in today's Times about the GNMP and the trail - but Weaver should NOT be allowed to be the "point person" on this important issue (or any others for that matter).
I'm not quite sure why this bothers me so much, but I've been battling bullies since I was a kid.
I never pick a fight, but... I do NOT like to back down!
Sometimes, diplomacy works, but if it fails, the gloves come off.
The word "Pressure" contains the root, "PRESS".
We use the power of the Press to show them up for the bullies that the GNMP truly are in this case.
A gathering of "little Warriors" in their tiny, but over-sized football uniforms, with men and women in Civil War garb standing behind them?
Fight THAT, GNMP!
Yesterday at 10:57am · Edited
Donna Weikert Abell Sounds good, I don't know who heads the Generals, but someone on here should know it
Yesterday at 9:56am
Gene Golden Donna Weikert Abell ... AND THE CHEERLEADERS!
Yesterday at 9:57am
Gene Golden AND... the High School players who honed their skills there.
AND... the people who use the Biser Trail!
Yesterday at 9:58am
Donna Weikert Abell Yes all of them, the Warriors midgets were the ones that made the field, and many of the kids that played on that field now coach for both teams, I hope the Bisers trail can be saved too
Yesterday at 10:04am
Gene Golden Donna Weikert Abell Sorry, but I thought that the Generals were the name of the team.
I changed it to Warriors above.
Was there also a Generals team?
Yesterday at 10:58am
Donna Weikert Abell There is 2 midget football teams, the Generals just started up a few years ago, because the Warrior team was so large and other reasons, but the original Warriors team many years ago built the football field, so they could have a home field, the school...See More
Yesterday at 11:04am
Mark Darnell Cliff Weikert runs the Generals.
Yesterday at 3:00pm
Donna Weikert Abell Thanks Mark
Yesterday at 3:12pm
Gene Golden BTW, shouldn't they be called "Little People Football" now?
Yesterday at 5:13pm
Tom Mckenney Channel 27 has reporters that continually look for stuff like this.
Yesterday at 5:34pm
Donna Weikert Abell No that's what midgets are called, my grandson who is now 12 s far from little people he is 5'7" and 130 These games are so important to these kids,they love football. Well they love baseball and basketball too, but football is awesome, my grandson passed the basketball last week, a bit hard like he was pitching a football
Yesterday at 7:46pm
Carol Rebert
February 16 at 9:04am
Wow. Apparently part of the Biser trail and the football fields were mistakenly placed on NPS land. After decades of use by the community the NPS wants them removed so the area can be made "clean". Seriously?
Scott Ashton No way!
February 16 at 9:05am
Michael P Redding Screw em!
February 16 at 9:06am · Edited
Kerry Feaster Ridiculous
February 16 at 9:10am
Scott Ashton How long has the trail been there? People have gotten used to/depend on it. Sorry NPS, I typically don't object when you tear stuff up (Lee's HQ buildings, Cyclorama Building), but this is one time when the present - in terms of health, wellbeing, quality of life - supersedes "History". (I use quotes because the importance of the area in the battle is questionable. There was probably more fighting at Mcds and KFC, so they need to get rid of those first. Oh and get rid of the whole of Colt Park too).
February 16 at 9:34am · Edited
Carol Rebert Wait! You mean the NPS should consider that there is also a living, breathing community to consider here? That's crazy talk. Sarcasm off.
February 16 at 9:26am
Joe Robinson Happen to live in Colt Park, you buying my house and relocating us too?
February 16 at 11:37am
James Kodei Check yourself on colt park Holmes.
February 16 at 11:47am
James Kodei Scott Ashton, not you joe
February 16 at 11:47am
Scott Ashton How do you mean James
February 16 at 11:59am
James Kodei Just responding to the getting rid of colt park comment ya made.
February 16 at 12:00pm
Scott Ashton That was sarcasm James. Meaning the NPS are happy to F with the Rec Park but not Colt Park or Mcds where - in my and many others opinions - more action happened. Their thought process is backwards.
February 16 at 12:07pm
James Kodei I'm aware it was sarcasm as was mine, sort of. Just stay the f outta colt park if ya know what's good for ya, ya hear?
February 16 at 12:08pm
Scott Ashton Oh I agree James. I don't want them to touch that either, but plenty out there (tourists and regular visitors mainly) wouldn't mind.
February 16 at 12:20pm
Annette Ritchie heck lets just let the NPS take over everything that way they can control everything and everybody's taxes will be out of the ball park, then people can move out of Gettysburg and it will be truly a ghost town........that is what they are hoping for.........i am just sick and tired of the NPS saying this is battlefield and that is battlefield. hell if they found a toenail they would say it was from a soldier and take it over. poo on all of them............sorry...............
February 16 at 9:26am
Jim Mackey Not saying I am for or against this but when you look at the county mapping it is very clear that the property line runs down the middle of the football field and the trail is on the other side of the football field. Not sure who approved the contstruction of the field or the trail but they should have checked the property lines first.
February 16 at 9:40am
Scott Ashton You're absolutely right Jim, and judging by the newspaper article they have every right to the land. But they don't HAVE to claim it. A mistake was made, but this might be one those of occasions where one should just say oh well, we f*cked up, and move on. It is not just some unused parcel of land in the middle of nowhere, but a community area that people depend on. I think that the pros vs cons need to be thoroughly assessed before they just cry "it's on our land so it must GO!".
February 16 at 9:46am
Scott Ashton And I can't think of any Pros. No visitor is going to visit that land once it became "battlefield" again. There'll be nothing to see.
February 16 at 9:48am · Edited
Scott Ashton I'm deadly serious about what I said too. If they get this done they better start forcing people out of their homes in Colt Park and force Mcds and KFC to move. Obviously I don't want either to happen, especially the former, I'm just making a point. From my understanding there was more action in those areas, which is the sole reason/excuse* (*delete as applicable) that the NPS always gives as justification for restoring land. And they WOULD like to do just that (I found out years and years ago they were eyeing up - for example - Mcds, but their hands are apparently tied....or perhaps they don't want to go up against a multi-billion dollar company, whether it is locally franchised or not). There should be some similar sort of "protection" in this case, so they can't just go after easy targets. Those who know, know that they would gleefully tear up the whole of Colt Park (which should have never been built according to some) and half of Steinwehr if they were King. But they can't and likely will never be able to. This area should be treated no differently. This has the potential to upset many more people than the removal of Lee's HQ Hotel did, because it would be directly disrupting a community instead of mostly visitors.
February 16 at 10:19am · Edited
Karen Reedy Shupe Squatters rights law should protect GARA. If you use your neighbors land for decades and they don't say anything then that land becomes yours.
February 16 at 10:14am
Scott Ashton Possession is 9/10ths of the law.
February 16 at 10:24am
Carrie Bixler I say it is time for a protest in Gettysburg against the NPS! Just saying if they had it their way there would be No Gettysburg homes, businesses or anything else! People would come to see empty battlefields and drive on dirt roads! Really? This one angers me to no end that football field has been there for YEARS not only did my grandparents and parents attend and participate in games but also my children and myself! Carol Rebert do you mind if I share this on my page I can not read it in the times online I don't have a subscription I would not pay for something that I would rather wipe my ass with anyway!
February 16 at 10:19am · Edited
Carol Rebert You are welcome to share Carrie. You may have to copy and paste it though for it to appear. It just is not right.
February 16 at 10:21am
Michelle Nett Smyers Carrie, do you want to protest? Or riot? Because just like all those punk ass kids in Berkley, we could torch stuff, and break stuff and take all our aggression out on all kinds of stuff!
February 16 at 11:25am
Gene Golden Michelle Nett Smyers, we won't invite the college kids
I don't think many of them read BoroVENT, or the local papers, for that matter - but I may be wrong.
Charles Strauss, maybe you can muster some MSM Students to actually become PART of history and change?
February 16 at 11:52am
Michelle Nett Smyers Hey Gene...we could all wear masks too and still BLAME them for it!!
February 16 at 11:53am
Gene Golden Well truthfully, Scott SHOULD wear a mask, regardless.
February 16 at 1:54pm
David Spitzer I say do what they do a forced land grab and evict them from our town
February 16 at 10:44am
Scott Ashton How does one just "discover" this anyway, that's what I wanna know. How can it go unnoticed for decades and then suddenly somebody realizes right around the same time we are discussing the Casino. Seems fishy. I would hope they wouldn't exploit the Casino issue as justification for why they need to "save land".
February 16 at 10:50am · Edited
Michelle Nett Smyers Im sure they only just "noticed" it since removing all the trees so now the park and all the buildings are visible to the tourists on Confederate Ave so the easiest way to stir the pot is to suddenly realize boundary lines. Frankly, Id like to see a survey done before anything else
February 16 at 11:39am · Edited
James Kodei I mean boarders are shitty to start, there's lots of contests state to state, some I believe we're caused by da real GW when he was surveying.
February 16 at 11:50am
Gene Golden 50 years ago Times article in today's paper:
... strong winds topping 45 mph toppled a 60ft tall sign at the Cannon Cafeteria on Steinwehr...
So evidently, prior to 1967, a sixty foot sign was not offensive to the sensitivities of the Borough or Park Service, but a football field is today.
BTW, (without looking it up to verify my memory) a 12ft sign is the ridiculous height limitation today.
Even the Borough allows "grandfathering".
I think it's time for the GNMP to suck it up, and leave this one alone.
The last time BoroVENT was forced into a PROTEST, was to save the "Rosensteel Plaque" from becoming a dusty relic in the basement of the new visitors center.
February 16 at 11:30am
Scott Ashton I didn't know BV was responsible for or helped contribute to that. Interesting.
February 16 at 11:46am
Gene Golden We stood on the corner of Steinwehr an Taneytown with picket signs and all.
It was November 17, 20something, during the Remembrance Day visits.
February 16 at 2:04pm
Scott Ashton Gene What was their justification for not putting it on the wall where it now hangs? Were they trying to erase all memory of the former museum or something? Even now, if you don't know it's there, it's not overly noticeable. As you know it's not prominently displayed, like encircled by lights or anything.
February 16 at 4:06pm · Edited
Gene Golden Last time I saw it, years ago, it was displayed on the wall... I think.
February 16 at 3:43pm
Scott Ashton Yes it's on the wall, Gene, but kinda in a corner and not overly prominent.
So what was their reason for not wanting to display it, do you recall?
February 16 at 4:05pm
Gene Golden I guess because it was "no longer the Rosensteel Collection"?
February 18 at 8:57pm
Gene Golden If this comes down to the trail and football field and whatever buildings may be part of that, being removed I have a suggestion...
IF the Borough would allow it (or GARA, in this case) Gettysburg Signs is willing to donate a 4' x 20' Banner to erect in their place, that will face the GNMP, to read:
"Coming Soon to this Location -
Gettysburg Battlefield Hooters!"
Or...
"The GNMP Took this Local Field Away From Midget Football Kids"
February 16 at 11:38am · Edited
Gene Golden Right NOW, if GARA allowed it ( Jacob Woodland Schindel ), I will donate a banner to read something like:
"Don't Let GNMP Take Our Kids' Football Field!"
Or... "GNMP, Leave Our Kids' Field Alone",
and add a website address for people to read about it.
I think 6,000 plus acres should be just about enough to tell a battle's history.
If they need more than that, then they are evidently not doing it too well.
Whenever an entity like the GNMP, or the Borough, fixate on an issue, or a certain person happens to get a hair up their ass, bad things can happen.
If common sense and cooler heads prevail, it is better for all involved.
February 16 at 11:45am
Carol Rebert Exactly. And this isn't just a borough matter. Doesn't the Rec Park "belong" to all of us?
February 16 at 11:47am
Carrie Bixler Gene I love this idea if you need any help contacting anyone let me know my mother organizes the bus trips from there and is in there every week
February 16 at 11:47am
Gene Golden Carrie, the first hurdle would be for the GARA to even allow this.
BUT, if a certain bus, would just happen to be parked with a banner on it's side, facing the parkland toward W. Confederate Avenue, OR if it were parked on a public street near Johns Avenue, or even in a parking lot at the GNMP Visitor Center lot...
OR, if it drove around a bit and slowly made its way throughout Gettysburg and the GNMP!!!
Political speech is a PROTECTED Speech, not commercial.
If buses are allowed on the Battlefield for Tours, then they can drive through with POLITICAL MESSAGES unimpaired.
And if NOT allowed?
Holy shit!
Can you spell ACLU?
February 16 at 12:15pm
Gene Golden Carol Rebert , as a citizen of Cumberland Township, I am also represented by our Supervisors because we "share" GARA through our tax contributions to the "Borough" Park.
February 16 at 2:06pm
Gene Golden But... When common sense and cooler head FAIL, that's when WE at BoroVENT need to step up to the scrimmage line, as a "Special Teams Unit"
And, I think many would agree, we've probably been called "Special" before
February 16 at 11:47am
Scott Ashton Make it Special Teams Fighting Unit, or STFU for short 😂
February 16 at 11:58am
Gene Golden "GNMP = Grab No More Parkland!"
February 16 at 11:54am
Scott Ashton "We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…. That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men…. That WHENEVER ANY FORM OF GOVERNMENT BECOMES DESTRUCTIVE OF THESE ENDS, IT IS THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO ALTER OR TO ABOLISH IT, AND TO INSTITUTE NEW GOVERNMENT, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness".
This should also apply to the NPS at a local level, as they are the Federal Government. ;-) As Gene said, when they start taking too much land WE THE PEOPLE should be able to stand up and say NO. Because in all honesty, all of the land belongs to US. They've been incredibly fortunate to cast their net over an increasingly wide radius for long enough now. They've had a good run, but it's time for them to take an extended water break.
February 16 at 12:01pm · Edited
Carol Rebert A freaking men Scott!
February 16 at 11:58am
Scott Ashton Haha thanks
February 16 at 12:01pm
David Spitzer Scott Ashton stop talking like that too many people here have no idea what your saying it's too hard for them to understand simple language
February 16 at 12:02pm
Scott Ashton David lol
February 16 at 12:09pm
Bruce Hollinger Now you all know how the ranchers feel about hoarding all the land.
February 16 at 6:07pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner So for the last 40+ years it was OK and NOW they choose to squawk about it? Maybe the Rec Park should send them a bill for mowing and taking care of it.
February 16 at 12:24pm
Gene Golden Carrie Bixler and others, issues like these become a rallying cry for a common sense solution.
Unfortunately, as we are well aware, common sense is not so common after all.
It is so enticing for people to want to get involved, but it does take a certain resolve to actually go through the motions, and deal with the possible outcomes.
Anyone who is contemplating any sort of action on their own, or who are considering anything I throw out there in moments of anger, or disgust, need to commit.
A plan of action would need to be formed, and then, after exhausting the most sensible options, we could consider the more "visual" and "effective" means of becoming heard.
I already have a slew of ideas roaming through my head, and it's early yet.
It would be nice if somebody who is close to this, like Jacob Jake Schindel, would keep us abreast of the "proper channel" attempts to expedite a solution to this issue.
Let us see the letters being written to the GNMP, in your efforts to do this "diplomatically".
Let us see their replies to these pleas.
When all diplomacy efforts fail, then allow the people themselves to make an effort to preserve what is, for all intents and purposes, THEIRS.
February 16 at 12:27pm
Gene Golden This gives us something to talk about on Saturday!
Plus, don't forget... CAKE!
February 16 at 12:28pm
Sandra Young They are just now claiming the property, bs
February 16 at 1:06pm
Scott Ashton Just say they got their way...what they gonna do, put a big wall or fence up? Because if not how would one tell the difference between grass and, um...grass? Because they're not gonna put out any more monuments. Even so, do ya really think people would stay off the fenced side and not play with their ball or whatever on there? I think not. I don't think many would give a damn whether it is NPS land or not even though as you probably know, any leisure activities (aside from cycling, segway-ing, etc) are forbidden on the battlefield proper. It's pretty hard to expect somebody to only play on one patch of grass when the day before they were playing on another patch of grass. It's insanity. I might have been able to understand the NPS' point of view more if they were actually going to do something with this land rather than just have it as another piece of.....grass, that is indistinguishable from the grass next to it. They have so many pieces of land now such as the old Country Club that was supposed to be having interpretive markers, etc, installed, yet nothing's changed and that's been like, what, 5 or 6 years since they obtained that land? They have more land than they know what to do with/can afford to do anything with/have the manpower and time to do anything with. Is Cemetery Ridge even finished yet?
February 16 at 1:35pm · Edited
Norma Herring You have got to be kidding! They are determined to turn this damn town into a ghost town!!!! I have always said that and it is going to happen unless we stop it!
February 16 at 1:54pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Listen everyone, Gene has made a good point and that is we have to rally together on this. With that said, however, I seriously doubt the NPS is going to give in. So, considering there will be some expense in moving the field and the fitness trail, IF the ground is properly surveyed so that everyone knows exactly where the boundaries are, I will personally round up some 320 foot measuring tapes, round up as many volunteers as possible and go out and mark where a new field can be placed. Then we will have to go from there, keeping in mind that a lot of the property on that side/end of the park is pretty much like wetlands if it rains enough.
Secondly, since this will cost money, I will go before GARA and the rec director Jackie and, provided I can round up the equipment needed, I will offer to organize some public dinners out of the Sterner building with profits going to defray the costs of moving the field and trail. Of course I will need assitance with all that but Im throwing down the offer to step up and help.
February 16 at 2:00pm
Carol Rebert Only if plan "A" fails though.
Thanks Michelle.February 16 at 2:13pm
Scott Ashton What's Plan A Carol. Didn't even know there was a Plan yet
February 16 at 2:23pm
Carol Rebert I meant tell NPS to move on and let things as they have been for decades.
February 16 at 2:26pm
Scott Ashton OK
February 16 at 2:30pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner Michelle, you know Cookie and I will help serve.
February 16 at 3:15pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Yes Jeanne, I suspected you would and I appreciate that!
February 16 at 3:43pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Jeanne knows I can cook....it's been a well kept secret until now!
February 16 at 4:33pm
Jeanne Davies Shriner Michelle Nett Smyers Sorry, I didn't know it was a secret.
February 16 at 4:38pm
Michelle Nett Smyers Its not really....anyone who has been to carnival knows I can cook. And with any luck, I'll be cooking a lot more in the near future.
February 16 at 4:40pm
Randal Wright Count me help also if needed
February 18 at 12:23pm
Gene Golden Like Michelle Nett Smyers said, if it hadn't been for their removal of the damned trees in the first place, the building would have never been exposed!
This was not by accident.
I believe it was a deliberate action by the GNMP to expose these areas, so the "Purists" could bitch about having to see something besides trees.
I don't believe that the GNMP should be entitled to ONE single square foot beyond what someone is willing to sell to them, at this point in time.
They've had 154 years to clarify these issues, (okay 100 years as a "National Park") but they can stop now.
I want to know WHO initiated this land-grab, WHEN it was begun, and WHY it's being implemented now?
Who wants to do the Right To Know on this one?
Not it!
February 16 at 2:14pm
Jeremy Nalewak Federal government should not own such lands actually.
February 16 at 2:30pm
Scott Ashton Tell us more
February 16 at 2:31pm
Jeremy Nalewak I need to get to my computer typing on the phone will kill me. Stand by.
February 16 at 2:32pm
Jeremy Nalewak Article 1 section 8 of the US Constitution gives the instances where the federal government can own lands.
"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings.”
I would say a national park does not fit any of these criteria.
February 16 at 3:03pm · Edited
Jeremy Nalewak I've got more to post but have to get my daughter.
February 16 at 3:11pm
Scott Ashton Interesting Jeremy thanks
February 16 at 3:31pm
Gene Golden What, your daughter knows more than you do about this stuff?
I'm impressed 😅
February 16 at 3:51pm
Jeremy Nalewak Good one Gene.
February 16 at 3:54pm
Michelle Kennedy Please tell me what I'm reading is a joke. The NPS wants land that visitors could benefit from ALONG WITH residents....mind you....WTH do they need it for?! I'm beyond words. 😠
February 16 at 2:50pm
Ray Eiker Seems to me A LOT of people have been fu#$$%n up. In too much of a hurry and not checking things out properly.
February 16 at 2:53pm
Scott Ashton Exactly Michelle. At this point it seems like they want it out of principle more than any other nonexistent reason. I have a funny feeling they're not going to install a waterslide or anything.
February 16 at 3:38pm
Gene Golden "But Mommy, it's MINE!"
"You little spoiled brat, you have more than you need already." 😠
Let it go.
February 16 at 3:54pm · Edited
Maggie Koenig I kind of feel like people are only ticked off because its the NPS. Its land they own why shouldn't they be able to do what they want with it?
February 16 at 3:54pm
Scott Ashton Not at all Maggie, at least not in my opinion. As I stated initially, I have actually typically been PRO-NPS in the past. Just not on this occasion, sorry.
In answer to your question, yes it is technically THEIR land (even though land belongs to ALL of US), but just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD, as the popular phrase goes.
February 16 at 4:16pm · Edited
Scott Ashton Also Maggie, they won't actually DO anything with it, once they got it. History tells us that. That's part of the problem and what makes it even more infuriating.
February 16 at 4:14pm · Edited
Michelle Kennedy Maggie, you're correct. However, why now after all these years? What could they possibly need it for? Are the tourists truly going to care about that area waaaaaaay off the road. Hell, the rate things are going everybody move out of the borough and surrounding areas. The whole freaking area was a damn battlefield AND a TOWN with RESIDENTS before the war. Enough is enough. I'm sure if they survey every single tourist who comes here if that part of the trail should stay or go, IF they have any common sense (IF) they could care less or say let GARA continue on as usual. They keep the area maintained. It isn't an eye sore. I'm perplexed. Is the dog park in this "zone" they're now wanting?? Not yelling nor being lippy at you darlin....just ranting in general!
February 16 at 4:15pm · Edited
Scott Ashton I think we need a bit of humor. May I present to you Mr. Unkar Plutt, leader of the NPS, Jakku Division. youtu.be/LAs0bpzBJgk
Star Wars - That's Mine!
Some space punks steal property from a hardworking citizen of Jakku.
YOUTUBE.COM
February 16 at 4:21pm
Gene Golden If you look at this image, it appears that the football field may not be affected too much... IF the green line is in the right place.
It does appear that the Biser Trail weaves in and out of the boundary a few times.
Heaven forbid that people should be allowed to walk on Hallowed Ground.
February 16 at 7:03pm
Gene Golden Click on the photo to enlarge.
I drew a pink line around what I think is the disputed area.
If so, this is EXTREMELY petty on the part of the GNMP, and they should be ashamed to even consider this "encroachment".
February 16 at 7:05pm
Gene Golden Green line is Border.
Grey line is the Biser Trail path.
You can actually see the lines of the football field, and they appear to be safe... as long as nobody runs out of bounds on the southwest side.
February 16 at 7:07pm
Scott Ashton Despicable. And all for WHAT?
February 16 at 7:09pm · Edited
Scott Ashton They let people stomp ALL over the battlefield and depending on number of people and weather conditions it can get really torn up in places. So if they allow that, this trail should be permitted to stay and shouldn't be relocated. Period. OK, by all means change the Park boundaries on paper if they must, but just leave stuff be. It's not as if they are going to prohibit people from walking on the area once they've "restored" it.
February 16 at 7:20pm
Michelle Nett Smyers The football field is actually a little bigger than what is there (which is a paint outline of a soccer field-I know that because I marked/painted the lines on those soccer fields). I believe it is the very corner of the football field the NPS is bitching about.
February 16 at 10:19pm
Michelle Kennedy I'd really like to know what in the hell the park service is going to do with this land. This is ludicrous 😠
February 17 at 3:56pm
Donna Weikert Abell I helped build that football field, it's part of the rec park, we raised money and built the darn thing, tell the park service to go sc...themselves
February 16 at 9:29pm
Bernie Flax Lefty Biser and his family deserve better than this they donated and dedicated the trail in memorial for their 2 sons that were killed in a terrible accident WOW How does that even happen?
February 16 at 10:29pm
Gene Golden Yes, but "What about all of the Civil War soldiers who gave their lives, so that the GNMP can claim all the land?" [sarcasm off]
February 17 at 11:28am
Bernie Flax Just sad.....Lefty has dedicated his Life to the Gettysburg community and the pursuit of good health in his community....... they better claim the whole town a national park there was blood shed on every square inch of Gettysburg
February 17 at 12:35pm
Ray Eiker They have enough damn land.They Will never miss it. Tell them to go pound sand up their ass.
February 16 at 10:36pm
Alan Leeti Wow! Can't they cooperate a little on this one? Makes me not want to renew my Gettysburg Foundation membership!
February 17 at 3:24pm · Edited
Gene Golden Michelle Nett Smyers, I thought the circle in the middle looked strange
I say, just keep the field intact, and if there's no razor-wire in the endzone, just keep playing.
Of course, knowing the GNMP, they'll put one of those crooked wooden fences up, and if the ball falls into their yard, the Park Nazis, sorry, I mean the Park Watch Zealots, will keep your ball.
Every neighborhood has one of "those" people.
February 17 at 11:29am
Gene Golden Okay, so all we know so far is what was said at the Borough Council meeting, and reported in the paper.
Jake Schindel is the only person on here who can fill us in on the details.
Borough Manager Gable claims that the Park won't be swayed, but I wouldn't consider his individual efforts to be the end-all solution.
February 17 at 11:40am
John Newbold It used to be (in PA) if you were on someone else's property for 21 years or more that it was yours by adverse possession.
February 17 at 1:55pm
Scott Ashton Seems reasonable. Somebody else said 10 years. Also reasonable.
February 17 at 4:07pm
Paul Kellett can't adverse possess the government or big timber companies. The rule is "openly and notoriously" for 21 years in PA but an exception exists for unfenced timber land and the government.
February 17 at 5:08pm
Gene Golden Paul Kellett, of COURSE there is an exception for government :/
February 18 at 11:42am
Kim Bixler-Smith 100% agree
February 18 at 5:28pm
Donna Weikert Abell Then they should pay he park for all the maintenance over the years, the path, and pay for the football field, that was build almost 40 years ago
February 18 at 7:05pm
Donna Weikert Abell Now where will the Generals youth football team play, the warriors who built the field pays thousands of dollars a year to play on the high school field
February 18 at 7:07pm
Ray Eiker We need a Congressional act on the Park Service. They want to be hogs and own all the frickin land. They have enough they can't take care of.
February 18 at 8:40pm
Ken Kessler Start approaching your local Congressional reps. About 12 words placed in an annual appropriations bill could, in all probability, resolve this.
February 19 at 12:25am
Ray Eiker Can I please pick the 12 words for them?
February 19 at 12:32am
Ken Kessler Leave that to the pros.
February 19 at 12:33am
Ray Eiker OK
February 19 at 12:41am
Randal Wright Wait!!! Did u just call Congress pros? More like EMPTY suites. ....
February 24 at 10:07am
Gene Golden One little sexual harassment charge, and boy did THIS get buried quickly!
This is an illustration from an old book, that I keep on my bulletin board - just because I really like it.
But, today I looked at it with the Biser Trail and GNMP issue in mind.
I think the caption sums it up beautifully, and is very relevant to this situation.
We need to be the Porcupines!!!
February 23 at 7:36pm
Gene Golden In today's paper, it indicated that this is just over ONE ACRE!
While I may understand that the GNMP is doing this because... if they let one entity do this, even a Borough, then they can't bitch when someone squats on their/our lands.
Have our Representatives gotten involved in this yet?
If not, why not?
WHEN DO WE PROTEST?
February 23 at 7:40pm
Scott Ashton That tiger would be hurting if it got a spine in its foot. And no, Borovent Vultures (Borovultures?), I am not advocating for violence I believe in nonviolence. Just a observational metaphor.
Similarly, i am fond of the tale of the Snake and the Mongoose. No suitably unqualified person/animal would dare approach/fight a snake. But a Mongoose would. Be the Mongoose. Although in reality I actually love snakes and I am unfearful of them. I'm indifferent to Mongooses (Mongeese? Mongai?) having not experienced one. But they seem pretty badass.
February 23 at 8:08pm
Timothy W Seigman I agree that the football field and trail should stay. But i fined it ironic that people only complain when it is being threatened to be taken away...but know one cares that gara charges midget football $4,000 - $5,000 a year to use that field that the Boro did not spend one dime in building. It is basically a grass cutting fee. For gara to do that to a youth non profit organization is ridiculous.
February 27 at 8:02am · Edited
Donna Weikert Abell I agree, I was with midget football when we raised the money and built the field, where was the park service then saying it was their land, and the other midget football team pays that amount to the school for playing on their field, the field our taxes help support
February 27 at 8:29am
Timothy W Seigman It's aways about the money not about the youth of today.
February 27 at 9:17am
Donna Weikert Abell I know between the 2 midgets teams they pay 10,000 a year to play on fields, and people get tired of kids fund raisers
February 27 at 9:21am
Tom Mckenney I have seen in India mongooses attack and kill cobras. Always rooted for the mongoose.
February 27 at 12:26pm
Paul Kellett Okay, has the park service ever swapped land? Absolutely. They traded over an acre to the college in exchange for an easement on their playing fields. This kind of thing does happen. The Straban ball fields were once some sort of government facility. The U.S. post office building in D.C. is now leased to a Trump Hotel. It appears that we are being bullied.
February 27 at 4:45pm
Alan Leeti Yes remember that whole college swap involving the railroad cut well. It can happen.
February 27 at 11:49pm · Edited
Gene Golden Consider this - the GNMP has no problems fast-tracking the process when they want to TAKE some land [Wills House][Country Club]
According to this site, things can be done.
I'm not going to read all of it, but it could be in here!
: www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/43/1716 "(a) Authorization and limitations on authority of Secretary of the Interior and Secretary of Agriculture
A tract of public land or interests therein may be disposed of by exchange by the Secretary under this Act and a tract of land or interests therein within the National Forest System may be disposed of by exchange by the Secretary of Agriculture under applicable law where the Secretary concerned determines that the public interest will be well served by making that exchange: Provided, That when considering public interest the Secretary concerned shall give full consideration to better Federal land management and the needs of State and local people, including needs for lands for the economy, community expansion, recreation areas, food, fiber, minerals, and fish and wildlife and the Secretary concerned finds that the values and the objectives which Federal lands or interests to be conveyed may serve if retained in Federal ownership are not more than the values of the non-Federal lands or interests and the public objectives they could serve if acquired."
43 U.S. Code § 1716 - Exchanges of public lands or interests therein within the…
LAW.CORNELL.EDU
Yesterday at 9:28am
Gene Golden "... the public interest will be well served by making that exchange: Provided, ...shall give full consideration to better Federal land management and the needs of State AND LOCAL PEOPLE, including needs for lands for the economy, community expansion, RECREATION AREAS... finds that the values and the objectives which Federal lands or interests to be conveyed may serve if retained in Federal ownership are NOT MORE THAN THE VALUES OF THE NON-FEDERAL LANDS OR INTERESTS AND THE PUBLIC OBJECTIVES THEY COULD SERVE IF ACQUIRED."
Capitalized for emphasis, by me.
So I doubt that this land could be argued to be "more valuable" to the 6,000 plus acres, and growing, GNMP, than the value to the community at this point. :/
Yesterday at 9:43am · Edited
Ken Kessler GeneGolden as you know I don't have a dog in this fight, but you are getting much warmer with regards to my original comment that "12 words in an appropriation bill" could resolve this. Keep going down this path and you will find your answer grasshopper!.
Yesterday at 9:52am
Gene Golden Thanks Ken!
I'm already working towards the "what if?" scenario.
If our national "elected officials" are not already aware of this situation, then it's due to the lack of skills, or effort, by our local "elected officials".
"We the people" already elected them to protect OUR interests, and they are aware.
IF they fail, then WE get involved for ourselves.
Yesterday at 9:57am
Ken Kessler I did this type of work for USDA and Dept of Interior. It is doable. Just remember the two fundamental issues, Authorization and Appropriations. One does not happen without the other. Start with a call to your Rep's Chief of Staff, do half the work then ask them to polish that turd and move it thru the system.
Yesterday at 9:58am
Gene Golden I know, I know... patience is NOT one of my virtues
Yesterday at 9:59am
Ken Kessler Respectfully, I doubt that that piece of your communities baseball diamond is real high on their legislative priority list right now. If it is something you want done, come up with some proposed language which cites the rationale contained in the USC Code, hand it to them and let them finalize it. Try to find other examples where something like this was done in the past. One of the keys is to let them think it was their idea and of course let them take all the credit if it happens.
Can't believe you didn't have a comment on my analogy of a "turd working its way through the system."
Yesterday at 10:11am
Gene Golden I STILL say a protest is in order, before one shovel is allowed to hit that ground.
Has WGAL been notified of how ridiculous this is?
What is the latest on the homefront, Jake Schindel and Jax Dwyer?
I saw that Weaver was quoted in today's Times about the GNMP and the trail - but Weaver should NOT be allowed to be the "point person" on this important issue (or any others for that matter).
I'm not quite sure why this bothers me so much, but I've been battling bullies since I was a kid.
I never pick a fight, but... I do NOT like to back down!
Sometimes, diplomacy works, but if it fails, the gloves come off.
The word "Pressure" contains the root, "PRESS".
We use the power of the Press to show them up for the bullies that the GNMP truly are in this case.
A gathering of "little Warriors" in their tiny, but over-sized football uniforms, with men and women in Civil War garb standing behind them?
Fight THAT, GNMP!
Yesterday at 10:57am · Edited
Donna Weikert Abell Sounds good, I don't know who heads the Generals, but someone on here should know it
Yesterday at 9:56am
Gene Golden Donna Weikert Abell ... AND THE CHEERLEADERS!
Yesterday at 9:57am
Gene Golden AND... the High School players who honed their skills there.
AND... the people who use the Biser Trail!
Yesterday at 9:58am
Donna Weikert Abell Yes all of them, the Warriors midgets were the ones that made the field, and many of the kids that played on that field now coach for both teams, I hope the Bisers trail can be saved too
Yesterday at 10:04am
Gene Golden Donna Weikert Abell Sorry, but I thought that the Generals were the name of the team.
I changed it to Warriors above.
Was there also a Generals team?
Yesterday at 10:58am
Donna Weikert Abell There is 2 midget football teams, the Generals just started up a few years ago, because the Warrior team was so large and other reasons, but the original Warriors team many years ago built the football field, so they could have a home field, the school...See More
Yesterday at 11:04am
Mark Darnell Cliff Weikert runs the Generals.
Yesterday at 3:00pm
Donna Weikert Abell Thanks Mark
Yesterday at 3:12pm
Gene Golden BTW, shouldn't they be called "Little People Football" now?
Yesterday at 5:13pm
Tom Mckenney Channel 27 has reporters that continually look for stuff like this.
Yesterday at 5:34pm
Donna Weikert Abell No that's what midgets are called, my grandson who is now 12 s far from little people he is 5'7" and 130 These games are so important to these kids,they love football. Well they love baseball and basketball too, but football is awesome, my grandson passed the basketball last week, a bit hard like he was pitching a football
Yesterday at 7:46pm
