SFP
Post Master
Castle Entrance to the town of Sirmione, Lake Garda
Posts: 105
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Post by SFP on Nov 19, 2010 23:41:46 GMT -5
And I would think that should anyone in the office of the PGCB be spending their time taking such pictures, or allowing someone else into the area to take such pictures there should be a criminal investigation of that individual. After all, if they are letting someone in to take pictures, would it not be possible for that individual to also maybe pick up and walk out with key points of evidence? I would not be surprised it that individual may have walked out with six or seven thousand PCAC petitions with a hundred valid names on each page. Bill, that is certainly interesting speculation - why are you so ready to imagine the worst case scenario as compared to something logical and legal. I'll share an old Italian thought with you. Why go through the trouble of screwing with someone when its a lot less effort to have them think you are screwing with them. Its all the same in the end. (might lose something in the translation)
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SFP
Post Master
Castle Entrance to the town of Sirmione, Lake Garda
Posts: 105
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Post by SFP on Nov 20, 2010 0:23:32 GMT -5
And I wonder just how NCG has access to the inter sanctum of the PGCB to have access to such information and to be allowed to set these postcards up for the picture? Which is why I say Hmmmmmmm........I think spellchecker called it right. Spellchecker knows bubkus. If you guys don't figure it out tomorrow, I'll help - but you should be able to get this without my help.
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 1:44:00 GMT -5
well hold on a minute here sal. Susan's facebook post said "we don't know who did this but........." and now youre here telling us exactly how it happened. I don't get it does NCG know or not know who made up the post cards and got them out to people?
I mean why would she lie on her facebook page? What would be the reason for her saying that NCG didn't know who got those post cards out if they really did?
Basically sal either you or Susan is a bold face liar and you have both put each others head on the choping block. To be honest your story sounds the most liekly but I can't understand why Susan would even make a comment like that. It serves no reasoning. Once again your crying that I'm a lunatic but once again I have someone caught by the balls based on black and white what was posted by two differnt NCG leaders.
Please tell us who is right here you or Susan.
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SFP
Post Master
Castle Entrance to the town of Sirmione, Lake Garda
Posts: 105
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Post by SFP on Nov 20, 2010 2:17:34 GMT -5
well hold on a minute here sal. Susan's facebook post said "we don't know who did this but........." and now youre here telling us exactly how it happened. I don't get it does NCG know or not know who made up the post cards and got them out to people? I mean why would she lie on her facebook page? What would be the reason for her saying that NCG didn't know who got those post cards out if they really did? Basically sal either you or Susan is a bold face liar and you have both put each others head on the choping block. To be honest your story sounds the most liekly but I can't understand why Susan would even make a comment like that. It serves no reasoning. Once again your crying that I'm a lunatic but once again I have someone caught by the balls based on black and white what was posted by two differnt NCG leaders. Please tell us who is right here you or Susan. You really are a goof about this. Neither of us is wrong. She said didn't know who made the copies of the post cards, but thanked whoever did it. Someone here said that a friend at Staples helped get it done, they were wearing buttons, if the person did not think it was Susan, but some NCG people, I offered a possible explanation. Just because it doesn't fit some conspiracy plot that your trying to push, we've all got to be liars. You just love to go around trying to get people excited over things and claim a breaking theory on how it was done wrong. You started the entire string about the post cards in the first place. Always lots of questions, but always short on answers. So you say she must be lying. I say that there are other possible explanations that you refuse to consider. I say all you're interested in is keeping some more controversy going where there is none. Like the picture of the post cards - there's nothing there - just your accusations and mis-direction, but its not what you make it out to be, and you can't even figure it out.
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 2:26:55 GMT -5
Here is what Susan wrote and this is a direct quote I changed none of it
SSP "" This is a photo of over 1800 postcards received by the PGCB. (The photo was taken at the PGCB today.) We don't know who made hundreds of copies of the plain black and white postcards and distributed them to be mailed in, but whoever it was, Thank You!"
She clearly say's WE do not know who made copies AND DISTRIBUTED them.
Then you come in here and tell us NCG did it. so yes one of you is a liar and no I am not concocting anything.
Either you know who copied them and gave them out or you don't one or the other.
So one more time Sal which is it did NCG know who made the copies and distributed them or did they not? What you say contradicts what Susan wrote on the NCG facebook page as I clearly outlined with her quote that SHE posted on your groups page.
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 2:29:48 GMT -5
just once more sal she said
WE DON'T KNOW WHO MADE THE BLACK AND WHITE COPIES ANNNNNNNNND DISTRIBUTED THEM TO BE MAILED"
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 2:38:45 GMT -5
Also sal for what its worth I was never concerned about them taking a picture of the post cards or how or why they did. I could care less. Whats far more important is
1) are they really legit as in did each individual sign and send in the card
2) why is susan telling out right lies about not knowing who photo copied and distributed them. which in my book the fact that she is so desperatly trying to convince people that no one at NCG knows where these post cards came from points to some question about the integrity of the post cards
3) then the last point of concern is if the post cards are legit are they original or were they the same people who filled out peitions and wrote letters. If they are the same people then they should be thrown right in the garbage. Basically whats going on is people are being counted 2-3-4 -god who knows how many times in an effort to try and show more support.
I mean come on sal lets be real honest here NCG has been known and proven to have pulled shanannigins in the past with petitions. Not only was there problems the last time with them but again this time.
You guys turned in petitions from mickey mouse and a few other ficticous characters from what I've heard.
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SFP
Post Master
Castle Entrance to the town of Sirmione, Lake Garda
Posts: 105
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Post by SFP on Nov 20, 2010 3:00:04 GMT -5
Also sal for what its worth I was never concerned about them taking a picture of the post cards or how or why they did. I could care less. Whats far more important is 1) are they really legit as in did each individual sign and send in the card 2) why is susan telling out right lies about not knowing who photo copied and distributed them. which in my book the fact that she is so desperatly trying to convince people that no one at NCG knows where these post cards came from points to some question about the integrity of the post cards 3) then the last point of concern is if the post cards are legit are they original or were they the same people who filled out peitions and wrote letters. If they are the same people then they should be thrown right in the garbage. Basically whats going on is people are being counted 2-3-4 -god who knows how many times in an effort to try and show more support. But actually Ron, you were the one that posted the picture of them and pointed the whole issue out, leading to speculating on if they were sent as a batch and all of the other gunk - but now it really doesn't bother you? Right. 1 - to my knowlegde, yes they are 2 - she's not. Her posting wasn't desparate, you claim it is, she was thanking whoever did it. 3 - to my knowledge, they are legit. just because someone signed a petition doen't mean that they can't write a post card or letter. How many people on the Pro side signed petitions and then wrote letters? I saw plenty of people on the PCAC site as well as here claim they wrote letters - "yup sent mine" etc. So none of them signed petitions as well? There are no rules that say if you sign a petition, you can't submit something in writing to explain your views. I signed a petition and then handed in a written copy of my statement at the hearings before I spoke, so I'd be sure everything I wanted to say was on the record. People on both sides did. So your concerns are much ado about nothing because no rules have been broken. Of course, the PGCB will make their own determination on all of your questions as well, and I'm good with that.
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Post by lifesaver on Nov 20, 2010 8:55:41 GMT -5
Which is why I say Hmmmmmmm........I think spellchecker called it right. Spellchecker knows bubkus. If you guys don't figure it out tomorrow, I'll help - but you should be able to get this without my help. They weren't taken at PGCB
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Post by lifesaver on Nov 20, 2010 9:16:39 GMT -5
Wow. Try this one on for size. Did it ever occur to you that some people made copies and went door to door with the post cards and asked people to send them out? Or handed them out at the tables that were set up during different events. I know someone came to my door, but if you had a Pro sign out, chances are they did not stop at your place. Anyone ever consider that as compared to sending them all together bundled in a box?? Really? Here's the problem with your story Sal. I would "guesstimate" that probably 70%-80% of the residences in Gettysburg don't have any signs at all, pro, or no. And with Madonna's poll showing 62% of the locals supporting the casino if you knocked on doors even excluding those with pro signs chances 2 out of 3 that you would hit a supporter. They either refused the card, or maybe took it and wrote a letter in SUPPORT of the casino if they sent them in themselves, how would you know? Did someone from NCG review every card for its content? Don't think so. And who has accountability at NCG, Sal? No one EVER seems to know anything about anybody. "Someone" came to your door Sal, who was it? Did you know them? Then you know something about it. What is the big secret? Do you expect me to believe that you have a bunch of rogue members of your organization doing these wonderful things and nobody knows who they are? Yet they can fund mega bucks for commercials on prime time television and billboards? Yeah, I believe that. Those that have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
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Post by weekender on Nov 20, 2010 9:29:42 GMT -5
The picture was taken where the items have been collected by the PGCB. Your only "logical" conclusion is not necessarily the only explanation. You guys have been speculating on all of the illegal ways that this was done. I'll bet if you imagined a way to do it legally, you might stumble on how it happened. BTW - don't you think that as they receive these post cards, they might bundle them as such in order to keep things neatly in order , whatever they receive so they can catalog it for summarization, or do you imagine they just toss everything into boxes as they come in randomly? OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I would bet my very last dollar that there is no one at the PCGB that would risk taking a photo of those bundles and presenting it to NCG. That would indicate a favortism toward NCG and would be actionable by M-D, SO if what you are saying is true, and you are in "insider" at NCG, I would say that posting that photo was an huge error on their part. If I were MD I would take that photo to the legal people at the PCGB and demand that they explain it, because if a staff person (as NCG reports) who has access to those "bundles" is sending feel good photos to friends at NCG, there it is not an unreasonable speculation that they would be stupid enough to tamper with items in support of the Gettysburg project.. It was a very dumb move on the part of the individual who posted that photo, I thought that the NCG leadership were strategically smarter (not "smarter", but were well versed in grass roots strategy). I guess that they have just gotten a little too full of themself, as the old saying goes "if you give some people enough rope, they will hang themselves".
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Nov 20, 2010 9:45:35 GMT -5
The picture was taken where the items have been collected by the PGCB. Your only "logical" conclusion is not necessarily the only explanation. You guys have been speculating on all of the illegal ways that this was done. I'll bet if you imagined a way to do it legally, you might stumble on how it happened. BTW - don't you think that as they receive these post cards, they might bundle them as such in order to keep things neatly in order , whatever they receive so they can catalog it for summarization, or do you imagine they just toss everything into boxes as they come in randomly? OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I would bet my very last dollar that there is no one at the PCGB that would risk taking a photo of those bundles and presenting it to NCG. That would indicate a favortism toward NCG and would be actionable by M-D, SO if what you are saying is true, and you are in "insider" at NCG, I would say that posting that photo was an huge error on their part. If I were MD I would take that photo to the legal people at the PCGB and demand that they explain it, because if a staff person (as NCG reports) who has access to those "bundles" is sending feel good photos to friends at NCG, there it is not an unreasonable speculation that they would be stupid enough to tamper with items in support of the Gettysburg project.. It was a very dumb move on the part of the individual who posted that photo, I thought that the NCG leadership were strategically smarter (not "smarter", but were well versed in grass roots strategy). I guess that they have just gotten a little too full of themself, as the old saying goes "if you give some people enough rope, they will hang themselves". Well the furnishings are not unlike what will be found in a state office, but then again it can be purchases and the same stuff is in probably 90% of the offices in this country. I do agree that it would be foolish of any PGCB employee to take the pictures and send them to NCG. It would clearly show some kind of favoritism on the part of someone and open the possibility of all kinds of tampering, not only with respect to Mason Dixon but any of the applicants. Perhaps the photo should be "leaked" to someone on the board?
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Post by lifesaver on Nov 20, 2010 9:51:12 GMT -5
The picture was taken where the items have been collected by the PGCB. Your only "logical" conclusion is not necessarily the only explanation. You guys have been speculating on all of the illegal ways that this was done. I'll bet if you imagined a way to do it legally, you might stumble on how it happened. BTW - don't you think that as they receive these post cards, they might bundle them as such in order to keep things neatly in order , whatever they receive so they can catalog it for summarization, or do you imagine they just toss everything into boxes as they come in randomly? OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I would bet my very last dollar that there is no one at the PCGB that would risk taking a photo of those bundles and presenting it to NCG. That would indicate a favortism toward NCG and would be actionable by M-D, SO if what you are saying is true, and you are in "insider" at NCG, I would say that posting that photo was an huge error on their part. If I were MD I would take that photo to the legal people at the PCGB and demand that they explain it, because if a staff person (as NCG reports) who has access to those "bundles" is sending feel good photos to friends at NCG, there it is not an unreasonable speculation that they would be stupid enough to tamper with items in support of the Gettysburg project.. It was a very dumb move on the part of the individual who posted that photo, I thought that the NCG leadership were strategically smarter (not "smarter", but were well versed in grass roots strategy). I guess that they have just gotten a little too full of themself, as the old saying goes "if you give some people enough rope, they will hang themselves". I think you're right weekender. And I can't think that any employee there would risk losing their job for NCG. My guess is they cringe and wish they could lock the door when they see them coming. Personally, I think everything was staged and the photo wasn't taken anywhere near PGCB's headquarters.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Nov 20, 2010 9:56:02 GMT -5
OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I would bet my very last dollar that there is no one at the PCGB that would risk taking a photo of those bundles and presenting it to NCG. That would indicate a favortism toward NCG and would be actionable by M-D, SO if what you are saying is true, and you are in "insider" at NCG, I would say that posting that photo was an huge error on their part. If I were MD I would take that photo to the legal people at the PCGB and demand that they explain it, because if a staff person (as NCG reports) who has access to those "bundles" is sending feel good photos to friends at NCG, there it is not an unreasonable speculation that they would be stupid enough to tamper with items in support of the Gettysburg project.. It was a very dumb move on the part of the individual who posted that photo, I thought that the NCG leadership were strategically smarter (not "smarter", but were well versed in grass roots strategy). I guess that they have just gotten a little too full of themself, as the old saying goes "if you give some people enough rope, they will hang themselves". I think you're right weekender. And I can't think that any employee there would risk losing their job for NCG. My guess is they cringe and wish they could lock the door when they see them coming. Personally, I think everything was staged and the photo wasn't taken anywhere near PGCB's headquarters. Has anyone been in SSP's office?
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Post by weekender on Nov 20, 2010 10:02:46 GMT -5
I think you're right weekender. And I can't think that any employee there would risk losing their job for NCG. My guess is they cringe and wish they could lock the door when they see them coming. Personally, I think everything was staged and the photo wasn't taken anywhere near PGCB's headquarters. Of course it was, in this economy even stupid people would not be dumb enough to take that risk and certainly not for them! I agree with you this definitely was staged, but I am not sure who it was for because they were preaching to the choir. It could have been in any office or even a home office, I loved the staging of the filing box, to make sure it was clear that it was an office (all that was missing was their marking the box "Office Files")! When they fail at this, Hollywood is calling someone's name! Was it a message intended to scare supporters, it just makes no sense and it implys that there is curruption in the PCGB (not really even implies, it STATES it)... I would HOPE that MD did/will bring the photo and the posting by NCG to the attention of the Board, I do not think that it needs to be leaked, it needs to be addressed directly as a legal matter... If what NCG said is true (HA!) they have exposed curruption in the board's office and it must be addressed. That said, it might be smart of them to hold off until they have a better sense of where it is going and then drop it, even if to contest a decision should it not go in their favor...
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Post by gburgbaseballmom on Nov 20, 2010 11:08:17 GMT -5
Over on their FB looking for something that I think I remember seeing that pertains to this thread and found this little exchange that just burns me up in light of their big expensive media push!
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Post by gburgbaseballmom on Nov 20, 2010 11:10:40 GMT -5
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Post by gburgbaseballmom on Nov 20, 2010 11:13:37 GMT -5
So she claims that anyone can make an appointment to go to the PGCB and handle these materials.
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 12:11:29 GMT -5
But actually Ron, you were the one that posted the picture of them and pointed the whole issue out, leading to speculating on if they were sent as a batch and all of the other gunk - but now it really doesn't bother you? Right. So I made this thread I never said anything about how you obtained the photos it's the fact that you have a picture of all the ficticious post cards you turned in that bothers me. 2 - she's not. Her posting wasn't desparate, you claim it is, she was thanking whoever did it. She is a liar sal she said and I quote"WE DON'T KNOW WHO MADE THE BLACK AND WHITE COPIES AND DISTRIBUTED THEM TO BE MAILED
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 12:18:19 GMT -5
OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I;. The photo should not even be a question. MD went to the PGCB and got the petitions of NCG why would you think that NCG couldn't go in there and get the same. If the PGCB gets the stuff out and say's there it is what would stop them from snapping a pic? ? I really don't see why you guys are so hung up on NCG taking a picture of something. The real question here should be why would Susan try to convince people that she had no idea who made copies of their own post cards and then took them around for people to be signed??? I mean it's pretty obvious sal stuck his foot in his mouth by running in here and telling us they took the petitions around to be signed and then tried to make out like all susan ment was that she didnt know who helped them out at staples. If that was the case she wouldnt have went on to say........"AND TO DISTRIBUTED THEM TO BE MAILED" The only reason I can think of would be that NCG people made the copies plastered a whole bunch of names on them slathered them with stamps and mass mailed them off.
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 12:19:20 GMT -5
So she claims that anyone can make an appointment to go to the PGCB and handle these materials. AND SHES RIGHT HOW DO YOU THINK MD GOT THEIR PETITIONS?
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Post by lifesaver on Nov 20, 2010 17:36:18 GMT -5
So she claims that anyone can make an appointment to go to the PGCB and handle these materials. AND SHES RIGHT HOW DO YOU THINK MD GOT THEIR PETITIONS? So what you are saying is that I could go to PGCB headquarters and ask to view all the petitions and letters concerning the MD proposal? Then I could also find out exactly how many of those petition signers against the casino were local? Do you think the questionable signatures have been isolated from the others? Can I view the letters/petitions etc. from the other three applicants?
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Post by SpellChecker on Nov 20, 2010 21:17:55 GMT -5
The way I understand it lifesaver YES. MD got access to the NCG stuff and vice versa so I would think anyone else could as well.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Nov 21, 2010 14:46:48 GMT -5
OK, your explanation of the collection TOTALLY works for me, so does the bundling at the PCGB. What does not is the photo... I;. The photo should not even be a question. MD went to the PGCB and got the petitions of NCG why would you think that NCG couldn't go in there and get the same. If the PGCB gets the stuff out and say's there it is what would stop them from snapping a pic? ? I really don't see why you guys are so hung up on NCG taking a picture of something. The real question here should be why would Susan try to convince people that she had no idea who made copies of their own post cards and then took them around for people to be signed??? I mean it's pretty obvious sal stuck his foot in his mouth by running in here and telling us they took the petitions around to be signed and then tried to make out like all susan ment was that she didnt know who helped them out at staples. If that was the case she wouldnt have went on to say........"AND TO DISTRIBUTED THEM TO BE MAILED" The only reason I can think of would be that NCG people made the copies plastered a whole bunch of names on them slathered them with stamps and mass mailed them off. I can well understand that those who have applied for a license can have access to things involving their application, and possibly those of the other applicants to look for discrepancies. But I can't believe just anyone can make an appointment or walk in and look at things. If this is the case the board will never have all of the items they need to make a decision, because someone can walk in and ask to look at items. I can't believe that just anyone can walk in off the street and look at items.
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HoneyBadger
Poster Child
HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
Posts: 373
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Post by HoneyBadger on Nov 21, 2010 15:37:35 GMT -5
The more I look at that photo the more I know that there is a snake in that post card pile. I'm not the suspicious type which is why I usually leave myself wide open for attack but sometimes my little voice speaks. It is speaking now - if I study that photo long enough I will find the snake. It's too staged and something will give it away.
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