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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 13, 2011 6:02:14 GMT -5
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Post by americaneagle on Sept 13, 2011 6:07:19 GMT -5
Is it true the Emmitsburg Road bridge, when it reopens, will be named the Mason-Dixon Casino Memorial Bridge?
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 7:06:14 GMT -5
"We had to spend six years preserving our family-friendly community and our historic identity. This is a recognition of that."
What has been preserved? We still have a hotel that is almost 40 years old, we still don’t have any new jobs, and we still have only tourism as our local industry. There is nothing new to bring and keep people in town.
And I don’t know the numbers, but from what I saw in town this summer, I don’t believe we are going to see the tourism numbers up this year.
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Post by orrtannaoracle on Sept 13, 2011 7:16:24 GMT -5
I posted this article earlier today but didn't feel it was worth a new thread. Oh well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "And preserving that dump wins an award? Excuse me, I'm going to puke.
Just when you think we might be lucky and have seen the last of that gloating toad, here comes SSP again.
Has anyone seen NCG's job creation program?"
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 13, 2011 7:43:22 GMT -5
Is it true the Emmitsburg Road bridge, when it reopens, will be named the Mason-Dixon Casino Memorial Bridge? I see the humor in that. I would find it even funnier though if the next go around of casinos plops one somewhere near here. He who laughs last!
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 13, 2011 7:45:38 GMT -5
"We had to spend six years preserving our family-friendly community and our historic identity. This is a recognition of that." What has been preserved? We still have a hotel that is almost 40 years old, we still don’t have any new jobs, and we still have only tourism as our local industry. There is nothing new to bring and keep people in town. And I don’t know the numbers, but from what I saw in town this summer, I don’t believe we are going to see the tourism numbers up this year. From the .ning site So they are a registered non-profit but your donation is not tax deductible. What's wrong with this picture? And why can't I find NCG listed in the non-profit organizations of Adams Co. Pa?
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 7:54:54 GMT -5
Life Saver, I'm not sure just what the differences are, but there is a difference between "non-profit" and "tax-exempt".
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 13, 2011 8:36:57 GMT -5
Life Saver, I'm not sure just what the differences are, but there is a difference between "non-profit" and "tax-exempt". Yes FMB there is. Churches are tax-exempt, but any contribution you make to them is tax deductible. Any non-profit organization I've ever contributed to the contribution is tax deductible. I would like someone, anyone, to explain to me how NCG can claim non-profit status yet not be able to locate (or tell us where we can locate) any evidence of that or where we can find their financial disclosures for their organization, which to my understanding is required by law for any organization with a non-profit status. How do we know that any contributions to the organization don't go to "preserve" the youthful appearance of SSP and her cronies? I mean really, does anyone here honestly think their organization had any influence at all in stopping the casino and thereby PRESERVING the historical beauty of Gettysburg? Really?
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 8:57:38 GMT -5
I agree someone should have some record, and we should be able to find it on the list. The most recent date I could find in both the Tax Exempt and Non-Profit list was 2010, so one would think they are there. And kind of interesting in that as many times as this question has been ask, they still haven’t released any information, yet they always accused Mason Dixon of being secretive about their information and not disclosing information.
And, may I ask, if we are such a “family friendly” community, why is it that our children are growing up and leaving to live elsewhere? Now I have noting against retirees, as I hope to be one sometime myself, but if we are such a “family friendly” community why is it that we see retirees relocating here instead of young growing families? Could it be because we have nothing in the community for families?
We have much for those who are interested in history, and of course most specifically the Civil War, and the Battle of Gettysburg, but what else do we have? Few jobs, and nothing for children under 21. True a casino would not be for them, but perhaps it would attract more people, and eventually develop more attractions for more of the family.
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 13, 2011 9:18:08 GMT -5
I agree someone should have some record, and we should be able to find it on the list. The most recent date I could find in both the Tax Exempt and Non-Profit list was 2010, so one would think they are there. And kind of interesting in that as many times as this question has been ask, they still haven’t released any information, yet they always accused Mason Dixon of being secretive about their information and not disclosing information. And, may I ask, if we are such a “family friendly” community, why is it that our children are growing up and leaving to live elsewhere? Now I have noting against retirees, as I hope to be one sometime myself, but if we are such a “family friendly” community why is it that we see retirees relocating here instead of young growing families? Could it be because we have nothing in the community for families? We have much for those who are interested in history, and of course most specifically the Civil War, and the Battle of Gettysburg, but what else do we have? Few jobs, and nothing for children under 21. True a casino would not be for them, but perhaps it would attract more people, and eventually develop more attractions for more of the family. I agree Bill. By not showing accountability (openness and financial disclosure) it is obvious that NCG is satisfied to accept awards such as this on the basis of lies, half-truths, and misconceptions. I am amazed at the people here and elsewhere that fall prey to Chicken Little theorists and not ask for evidence to back up their claims, or do their homework to sort out the truth. In order to survive we simply cannot be satisfied to live in the past, and there are ways to do that while living "with" the past.
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Post by Rainier Wolfcastle on Sept 13, 2011 11:26:55 GMT -5
"We had to spend six years preserving our family-friendly community and our historic identity. This is a recognition of that." What has been preserved? We still have a hotel that is almost 40 years old, we still don’t have any new jobs, and we still have only tourism as our local industry. There is nothing new to bring and keep people in town. And I don’t know the numbers, but from what I saw in town this summer, I don’t believe we are going to see the tourism numbers up this year. Visitation, at least through July, was up 53,944 over the same point last year for a total of 690,749 visitors so far in 2011. Last year actually saw a marginal increase over 2009 with 18,552 more visits for a total of 1,031,554 in 2010. This looks like good news on the surface because it was the first year visitation increased from the previous year since 2002. Of course in 2002 there were 1,833,033 and last year there were 1,031,554. 53k more people visiting through July this year over last isn't all that great either, especially when you consider this year was the nationwide kickoff to the 150th anniversary of the Civil War. Mark my words, once the 150th of Gettysburg passes in 2013 this town will be deader than Lincoln.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 12:41:00 GMT -5
"We had to spend six years preserving our family-friendly community and our historic identity. This is a recognition of that." What has been preserved? We still have a hotel that is almost 40 years old, we still don’t have any new jobs, and we still have only tourism as our local industry. There is nothing new to bring and keep people in town. And I don’t know the numbers, but from what I saw in town this summer, I don’t believe we are going to see the tourism numbers up this year. Visitation, at least through July, was up 53,944 over the same point last year for a total of 690,749 visitors so far in 2011. Last year actually saw a marginal increase over 2009 with 18,552 more visits for a total of 1,031,554 in 2010. This looks like good news on the surface because it was the first year visitation increased from the previous year since 2002. Of course in 2002 there were 1,833,033 and last year there were 1,031,554. 53k more people visiting through July this year over last isn't all that great either, especially when you consider this year was the nationwide kickoff to the 150th anniversary of the Civil War. Mark my words, once the 150th of Gettysburg passes in 2013 this town will be deader than Lincoln. If visitation is up, that is great. I don’t own a business, all I can go by traffic and parking. I know this summer I had a lot of work in town, and even with all the construction going on I didn’t notice a lot of congestion that I did past summers. Also, on most any weekday I could find a parking place on the first bock from the square, except for Baltimore St. But if things are up from last year, that is great, I hope they were spending money.
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Post by lifesaver on Sept 13, 2011 12:48:20 GMT -5
But oh so beautifully "preserved"
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Post by americaneagle on Sept 13, 2011 14:43:20 GMT -5
I probably missed something along the way, because I wasn't an emphatic follower of either side of the issue, but how much local business did they claim that the gamblers would actually spend in town outside of the casino?
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Post by nilegrazowski on Sept 13, 2011 14:48:50 GMT -5
I probably missed something along the way, because I wasn't an emphatic follower of either side of the issue, but how much local business did they claim that the gamblers would actually spend in town outside of the casino? ALOT and greater than the ZERO NCG helped preserve. Actually this link will help you. www.post-gazette.com/pg/pdf/201004/20100404mason-dixon-resort_impact.pdfThis was this side of the story at least. In my opinion if it created a net of 1 job it was still a good thing. I was for it for many other reasons as well though. Sometimes more so because I was anti-NCG because their rebuttals were often lies and exagerations not based in reality. Non business people parroting what they think were business answers.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 15:12:34 GMT -5
I probably missed something along the way, because I wasn't an emphatic follower of either side of the issue, but how much local business did they claim that the gamblers would actually spend in town outside of the casino? I’m not sure just how much would have been generated downtown either, but I saw it is as something to keep people in town longer. I realize that I didn’t talk to every tourist in town this summer or any summer, but I have found more and more of them that I talked to were only staying one night if at all, because this was just a side trip while they are traveling from one destination to another. Most that I talked to who were spending the night, arrived sometime afternoon, and did the tour, were spending the night to leave early the next morning for someplace else, or arrived in the evening to spend one night, take the tour in the morning and then leave for another destination. One thing I thought was interesting, and probably a bit for theatrics, was at the hearings in Harrisburg. One of the board members ask Mr. LeVan about his plans for the shuttle bus from the casino to town, with Gettysburg being a college town he ask “what provisions would be made for underage college students who would ride the bus from town to the casino.” Mr. LeVan’s answer was something to the effect “We didn’t really think of people coming from town to the casino, we were concerned about getting people from the casino into town.”
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Post by orrtannaoracle on Sept 13, 2011 17:35:57 GMT -5
It's been some time since I worked on the legalities of non-profit organizations so I say this with no assurance that I am correct. Incorporation of non-profit organizations is enabled under PA statutes, much as Venter had to register his business. That designation if awarded by the state does NOT confer tax-exempt donations upon any persons who contribute to the organization's coffers. To gain IRS approval is a totally different process. The majority of IRS-approved tax-exempt organizations can be found in their website; most approved entities are typically 501-C-3. I guess that NCG has the first and not the second status - hence donations are not deductible. I can't comment on any of the speculation as to why their records are so elusive. We should have had Scot specifically ask to see them before he resigned. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the IRS website: Exemption Requirements - Section 501(c)(3) Organizations To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170. The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction. Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues. Here's the link to the IRS web search tool: www.irs.gov/app/pub-78/
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 13, 2011 21:01:15 GMT -5
It's been some time since I worked on the legalities of non-profit organizations so I say this with no assurance that I am correct. Incorporation of non-profit organizations is enabled under PA statutes, much as Venter had to register his business. That designation if awarded by the state does NOT confer tax-exempt donations upon any persons who contribute to the organization's coffers. To gain IRS approval is a totally different process. The majority of IRS-approved tax-exempt organizations can be found in their website; most approved entities are typically 501-C-3. I guess that NCG has the first and not the second status - hence donations are not deductible. I can't comment on any of the speculation as to why their records are so elusive. We should have had Scot specifically ask to see them before he resigned. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From the IRS website: Exemption Requirements - Section 501(c)(3) Organizations To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170. The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction. Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues. Here's the link to the IRS web search tool: www.irs.gov/app/pub-78/ Yes from what I could find the Non-Profit status is awarded by the state and can eliminate the requirement to pay sales tax, property tax and possibly fuel tax. But still doesn't explain why they claim this status but don't show up on any of the Adams County list I can find. Unless for some reason they are registered in another county. But I believe they claim their headquarters as being in the county someplace.
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Post by americaneagle on Sept 13, 2011 21:59:18 GMT -5
I probably missed something along the way, because I wasn't an emphatic follower of either side of the issue, but how much local business did they claim that the gamblers would actually spend in town outside of the casino? I’m not sure just how much would have been generated downtown either, but I saw it is as something to keep people in town longer. I realize that I didn’t talk to every tourist in town this summer or any summer, but I have found more and more of them that I talked to were only staying one night if at all, because this was just a side trip while they are traveling from one destination to another. Most that I talked to who were spending the night, arrived sometime afternoon, and did the tour, were spending the night to leave early the next morning for someplace else, or arrived in the evening to spend one night, take the tour in the morning and then leave for another destination. One thing I thought was interesting, and probably a bit for theatrics, was at the hearings in Harrisburg. One of the board members ask Mr. LeVan about his plans for the shuttle bus from the casino to town, with Gettysburg being a college town he ask “what provisions would be made for underage college students who would ride the bus from town to the casino.” Mr. LeVan’s answer was something to the effect “We didn’t really think of people coming from town to the casino, we were concerned about getting people from the casino into town.” As I understood things among the chaos and claims, you had to stay at the casino resort to use it. So there would actually be no one coming from the town to play there. The numbers who would tour and spend the money in the area while at the casino could be any number someone wanted to make up.
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Post by americaneagle on Sept 13, 2011 22:04:57 GMT -5
While there was debate on where those filling the jobs at the casino would come from, people tend to forget the many support type businesses that often follow on the heels of such resorts, and the potential employment they would bring and almost certainly rely on local employees. York Road was, in that regard, a far better location than Emmitsburg Road, because the land was there for satellite commercial development. You try to fit all that potential support business in on Emmitsburg Road and you're asking for a train wreck. If we have to have a casino, it needs to be along an already developed commercial strip with good, solid and established access.
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SFP
Post Master
Castle Entrance to the town of Sirmione, Lake Garda
Posts: 105
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Post by SFP on Sept 14, 2011 4:41:17 GMT -5
I’m not sure just how much would have been generated downtown either, but I saw it is as something to keep people in town longer. I realize that I didn’t talk to every tourist in town this summer or any summer, but I have found more and more of them that I talked to were only staying one night if at all, because this was just a side trip while they are traveling from one destination to another. Most that I talked to who were spending the night, arrived sometime afternoon, and did the tour, were spending the night to leave early the next morning for someplace else, or arrived in the evening to spend one night, take the tour in the morning and then leave for another destination. One thing I thought was interesting, and probably a bit for theatrics, was at the hearings in Harrisburg. One of the board members ask Mr. LeVan about his plans for the shuttle bus from the casino to town, with Gettysburg being a college town he ask “what provisions would be made for underage college students who would ride the bus from town to the casino.” Mr. LeVan’s answer was something to the effect “We didn’t really think of people coming from town to the casino, we were concerned about getting people from the casino into town.” As I understood things among the chaos and claims, you had to stay at the casino resort to use it. So there would actually be no one coming from the town to play there. The numbers who would tour and spend the money in the area while at the casino could be any number someone wanted to make up. I think you have it right on, That provision of the license would indeed have cost jobs in the hospitality sector of Gettysburg. You could play if you were not staying there by buying a number of other services including food, It would have had an impact for sure on restaurants losing business for those that wanted to play.
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Post by Rainier Wolfcastle on Sept 14, 2011 6:34:05 GMT -5
I think you have it right on, That provision of the license would indeed have cost jobs in the hospitality sector of Gettysburg. You could play if you were not staying there by buying a number of other services including food, It would have had an impact for sure on restaurants losing business for those that wanted to play. That's a great hypothetical but to you I would say where was your desire to save those restaurants from Aramark when the new VC was being built? Where was the outrage? Where is the outrage now that it's been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the new services at the VC ARE ACTUALLY (not hypothetically) hurting local businesses? Thanks for coming back to show us that perpetuating double standards and hypocrisy are still part of NCG's mission.
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 14, 2011 7:20:20 GMT -5
As I understood things among the chaos and claims, you had to stay at the casino resort to use it. So there would actually be no one coming from the town to play there. The numbers who would tour and spend the money in the area while at the casino could be any number someone wanted to make up. I think you have it right on, That provision of the license would indeed have cost jobs in the hospitality sector of Gettysburg. You could play if you were not staying there by buying a number of other services including food, It would have had an impact for sure on restaurants losing business for those that wanted to play. Based on this idea I assume you support the idea of no new businesses in Gettysburg because they will take away from existing businesses. Anytime a new business opens it is in competition with existing businesses. As for your contention that people who wish to gamble will go to the casino to eat so they can gamble, and should they have gone to Mason Dixon they would take business from eateries that already exist in Gettysburg and that is wrong. But many in the NCG camp have stated that they do gamble but go to Charlestown or Hollywood. So it is wrong to go to an eatery at Mason Dixon and take money from down town Gettysburg, but it is OK to take your business completely out of the area so you can gamble. Do I understand?
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Sept 14, 2011 8:55:11 GMT -5
I’m not sure just how much would have been generated downtown either, but I saw it is as something to keep people in town longer. I realize that I didn’t talk to every tourist in town this summer or any summer, but I have found more and more of them that I talked to were only staying one night if at all, because this was just a side trip while they are traveling from one destination to another. Most that I talked to who were spending the night, arrived sometime afternoon, and did the tour, were spending the night to leave early the next morning for someplace else, or arrived in the evening to spend one night, take the tour in the morning and then leave for another destination. One thing I thought was interesting, and probably a bit for theatrics, was at the hearings in Harrisburg. One of the board members ask Mr. LeVan about his plans for the shuttle bus from the casino to town, with Gettysburg being a college town he ask “what provisions would be made for underage college students who would ride the bus from town to the casino.” Mr. LeVan’s answer was something to the effect “We didn’t really think of people coming from town to the casino, we were concerned about getting people from the casino into town.” As I understood things among the chaos and claims, you had to stay at the casino resort to use it. So there would actually be no one coming from the town to play there. The numbers who would tour and spend the money in the area while at the casino could be any number someone wanted to make up. There would have been three ways to play at the Mason Dixon 1. to be a guest at the resort. 2. to make a purchase of some specified amount (I believe it was $10 but not sure) that could be a meal or purchase of some merchandise. 3. to have some kind of membership to one of the other amenities offered as approved by the PGCB. This could be anything that the PGCB approves such as a pool membership, or a gym membership. Or possibly (and I know I am stretching this) some kind of historical study club.
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Post by Spin Doctor on Sept 14, 2011 9:04:01 GMT -5
I'm confused why Susan and her so-called preservation group are receiving this award. What did they preserve? The land isn't in the park's boundaries, the hotel and sports complex are forty-years old, and a former Boyds Bears facility is located across the street. There are also several locally owned businesses, a bowling alley, and campground in the area.
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