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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Feb 19, 2013 16:52:47 GMT -5
I recently had the honor of carrying our national flag in a local parade, as a part of one of the local veterans organization’s Honor Guard. Although I was pleased with the occasional applause from the crowd as we passed and the shouts of “thank you for your service”, I was appalled at the lack of respect for our national colors. I don’t think I saw one person along the entire parade route, including the police officers at intersections, showing proper respect.
I would ask all who may be reading this to please, show proper respect for our flag, especially this year when we will be having so many events in the Gettysburg area with the celebration of the 150th anniversary of the Battle. Please let us set the example for those visiting us this summer.
The following should be of help if you don’t know what to do.
United States Code Title 36, Chapter 10 “The Flag Code”
§170. National anthem; Star-Spangled Banner
The composition consisting of the words and music known as The Star-Spangled Banner is designated the national anthem of the United States of America.
§171. Conduct during playing
During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.
§177. Conduct during hoisting, lowering or passing of flag
During the ceremony of hoisting or lowering the flag or when the flag is passing in a parade or in review, all persons present except those in uniform should face the flag and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart. Those present in uniform should render the military salute. When not in uniform, men should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Aliens should stand at attention. The salute to the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.
NOTE: Congress has approved that members of the armed services and veterans, not in uniform may render a hand salute. Although Marines are still held to the old standards. In uniform they will render the hand salute, but in civilian attire they will place their right hand over their heart, or remove their headdress and place it over their left shoulder, with their hand over they heart.
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Post by Venter on Feb 20, 2013 9:40:41 GMT -5
Bill, I learned the rules of standing and placing my hand on my heart from my Dad, a Veteran of WWII. We had so many parades during my youth, and attended enough baseball games, that I was taught well  There may be a lack of proper etiquette and training, as opposed to a lack of respect to the flag. There may also be an "embarrassment factor" involved, where those of us who know what to do look like nuts when we keep standing up in front of those who are clueless. I, for one, could care less what those around me think. But I've also noticed that some people are "reminded" when I take the effort to stand up. It then catches on. I've even explained to some little ones around me (not even my own) why I stand, and that they might want to too. It's infectious! Lead by example. Thanks for the reminder... as always. |
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Feb 20, 2013 17:19:43 GMT -5
Bill, I learned the rules of standing and placing my hand on my heart from my Dad, a Veteran of WWII. We had so many parades during my youth, and attended enough baseball games, that I was taught well There may be a lack of proper etiquette and training, as opposed to a lack of respect to the flag. There may also be an "embarrassment factor" involved, where those of us who know what to do look like nuts when we keep standing up in front of those who are clueless. I, for one, could care less what those around me think. But I've also noticed that some people are "reminded" when I take the effort to stand up. It then catches on. I've even explained to some little ones around me (not even my own) why I stand, and that they might want to too. It's infectious! Lead by example. Thanks for the reminder... as always. You are probably correct Venter, it is a lack of education. Hell, I don't think they even say the Pledge of Allegiance in school anymore do they? And you are very correct that we must set the example. I will continue to do so at every opportunity, as I am sure you will do. I hope others will also. |
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Post by georgiabelle on Feb 24, 2013 7:53:50 GMT -5
Thank-you for posting this! It has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time that nobody even acknowledges the National Colors when they pass by in a parade. I have marched in the Memorial Day parade for a few years now and see only veterans saluting or at least standing up and putting their hand over their heart. Shortly after 9-11, there was a parade for the 250th Anniv. of Northampton County, PA, I walked with my Marine Corps League Detatchment Auxilliary and handed out flyers on the flag code. I did this because with the surge of patriotism just then, so many people were displaying the flag improperly (hanging backwards, etc). Also, too many times to count, I have been at a baseball game and when the National Anthem begins, somebody nearby will tell me to remove my hat. Ummm.....women do not remove their hats, they are to stand with their hands over their hearts. These individuals are well-intentioned, but sadly uninformed. Perhaps there should be an article on the flag code published in the Gettysburg Times just before Memorial Day...oh, I forgot, nobody reads that anyway.  |
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Post by Venter on Feb 24, 2013 11:33:21 GMT -5
Standing in a store yesterday, forced to listen to County Music... and I can't believe that I actually LOOKED THIS UP! I thought it was really funny/interesting/timely to hear the Lyrics that echo exactly what we are saying here: Eric Church "How 'Bout You?"SO Close! Like it says in the first post, you are to place you HAND over your heart, while holding your hat. But, damn, close enough is close enough to get an "A for effort"   |
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Feb 24, 2013 17:32:26 GMT -5
Georgabelle, good idea about the article, or maybe an LTE. Would you be willing to proof it for me?
The one thing that really got my goat, was that the police officers along the route ignored the color guard completely. They continued to do with their side conversations, or in one case turned their back as the color guard approached.
I can remember when I was growing up we and we had parades in town, there were always officers, either full-time or part-time at every intersection. Any time one of the color guards approached the intersection, they would come to the position of attention, and render a hand salute as the colors passed.
But then again that was back in the day when the entire borough police force was made up of veterans, mostly WW II veterans.
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Feb 25, 2013 9:19:48 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed how people have no respect or display simple courtesies in their every day encounters with other people? How can we expect anyone to perform the simple gesture of showing respect to the flag? I'm not surprised. Then again, I lost faith in our people years ago.
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davew
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Post by davew on Feb 27, 2013 10:58:06 GMT -5
Has anyone noticed how people have no respect or display simple courtesies in their every day encounters with other people? How can we expect anyone to perform the simple gesture of showing respect to the flag? I'm not surprised. Then again, I lost faith in our people years ago. I'm in my 30s, we're in a different generation. I never intentionally disrespect the flag, but I don't have the super national allegiance where I'd stand up and yell USA USA USA at some event. That kind of nationalism has, as far as I can tell, never provided anything beneficial in a non-defensive position. Ask Germany, Japan, etc. We grew up in my generation being assured we were better than everyone else without ever being told why or being given an unbiased viewpoint of why that is. I'm sure folks in other countries were told the same. But the point of this post is that I agree with the above, when we can't even get along or have thoughtful discussions person to person, we have bigger problems than whether or not someone leaves a flag in the rain or holds it wrong as a parade attendee. It probably means quite a lot more to someone who served in the military, maybe not even to all of those folks. I do, though, think it's an improvement for the current generation to be able to objectively examine what all of these idols and symbols mean to them before they just do what someone else tells them they have to when it's not a matter really of courtesy to anyone. I'll gladly tell any veteran that I appreciate their services, and veterans are really the only cause I give to regularly. But if someone put flag rules or one-sided nationalism above common courtesy or the ability to have an objective discussion. I'm out. I see the flag, I know what it stands for. To be so rigid about exactly how it has to be handled and moved around...I don't get it. It becomes a false idol and a divider of people - I can't get into that. The flag, to me, does not represent what has provided freedom to me. The men who sacrificed ....they did. That good isn't represented by a flag or government, it's universal, it needs no cloth with special rules and throngs waiting to be offended. Most of our founders fled from blind group-think and legislated behavior that went well beyond whether or not you're being a good citizen. |
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Post by Venter on Feb 27, 2013 11:16:42 GMT -5
I'm in my 30s, we're in a different generation. I never intentionally disrespect the flag, but I don't have the super national allegiance where I'd stand up and yell USA USA USA at some event. That kind of nationalism has, as far as I can tell, never provided anything beneficial in a non-defensive position. Ask Germany, Japan, etc.
We grew up in my generation being assured we were better than everyone else without ever being told why or being given an unbiased viewpoint of why that is. I'm sure folks in other countries were told the same.
But the point of this post is that I agree with the above, when we can't even get along or have thoughtful discussions person to person, we have bigger problems than whether or not someone leaves a flag in the rain or holds it wrong as a parade attendee.
It probably means quite a lot more to someone who served in the military, maybe not even to all of those folks. I do, though, think it's an improvement for the current generation to be able to objectively examine what all of these idols and symbols mean to them before they just do what someone else tells them they have to when it's not a matter really of courtesy to anyone.
I'll gladly tell any veteran that I appreciate their services, and veterans are really the only cause I give to regularly. But if someone put flag rules or one-sided nationalism above common courtesy or the ability to have an objective discussion. I'm out. I see the flag, I know what it stands for. To be so rigid about exactly how it has to be handled and moved around...I don't get it. It becomes a false idol and a divider of people - I can't get into that.
The flag, to me, does not represent what has provided freedom to me. The men who sacrificed ....they did. That good isn't represented by a flag or government, it's universal, it needs no cloth with special rules and throngs waiting to be offended. Most of our founders fled from blind group-think and legislated behavior that went well beyond whether or not you're being a good citizen. Good Post, Davew. I especially like this part: I believe that someone thoughtful enough to Fly the Flag, should not have to suffer the slings and arrows of the Flag Nazis. It is a strong symbol of our nation, and that is why those people in foreign lands like to burn it as a show of aggression. Do we get incensed when we see that? Yeah. Should we target them for it? No. They are a product of their National Pride, in much the same way as we are. Knock this chip off my shoulder... burn this flag if you dare...Flying OUR Flag in a foreign territory is tantamount to challenging those people. In the 1980s, before your time, when OUR American Men's Hockey beat the USSR, and some players wrapped themselves in The Flag - WOW! There was no better feeling of National Pride than that moment, at that particular time. Right or wrong, USA, USA USA!!! ;D But I'll bet that wrapping themselves in the Flag was NOT an acceptable way to handle the Flag. Someone probably complained about their "disrespect"  |
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davew
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Post by davew on Feb 27, 2013 12:02:08 GMT -5
I do get cranked about folks who deface flags as a way to get attention and to try to irritate other people, but it's the fact that they're being jerks on purpose that cranks me. That's just a matter of common courtesy. It's not so much that I care that they're screwing around with a piece of cloth, when they burn it and they or someone they know hasn't really been wronged by anyone, it tells me a little bit about their desire for negative attention.
That's really about it, like you, when someone with good intentions flies a flag, that's good enough for me. You can run them off or shame them and make them fly nothing, but it's just divisive to do that. Why do we want to divide ourselves over trivial things and ignore real problems?
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Post by Fire Marshal Bill on Feb 27, 2013 15:00:03 GMT -5
As Venter said in an earlier post, it is most likely that people are unaware of things rather than intentional disrespect.
Like Venter, I learned my Flag etiquette very early in life from my father, a WW II Vet. My short time in scouting and in the military reinforced these habits.
The flag to me is a symbol, not necessarily of the country and what is stands for, but of the men and woman who fought under the flag so that I can have the freedoms I do have today, including my right to express my opinions on any topic I chose. As well as the right of other individuals to disagree with me, just as I am allowed to disagree with them.
Now I am not about to assault anyone physically or verbally for their not taking the proper actions when the flag passes.
I also dislike seeing a flag that is in disrepair flown, or in other ways displayed incorrectly. I will admit that I have often stopped at businesses and informed the owner that the flag they had flying was tattered and worn and should be taken down and replaced. Or, when flown on private property if I see the owner out, I have stopped and talked to them about it. I try to make these conversations friendly and informative, and I am not aggressive in anyway.
I am pleased to say that every time I have done this the response has been, either “I didn’t know that was wrong” or “I didn’t notice the flag was in that condition.” I have noticed that the next time I go by that location; the flag has been replaced, displayed in the proper manner or removed.
But I must admit that should I see someone intentionally defacing the flag, my approach may not be as friendly.
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