Tractor Supply Company wants to come to Gettysburg

[Alex Oreilly]

There is a Zoning Hearing meeting tonight(09/04/13) for TSC t o request variences in the zoning, article in the Evening Sun. They want to go on Smith Road, where Bob Monahan owns the property.

[Venter]

I hope Straban Township gets out of its own way.
I wish there was Video available of the meeting.

It's unfortunate that the townships that don't want the businesses, are the ones being courted.
I'd love for these businesses to come further West on 30 into Cumberland Township!

[Fire Marshal Bill]

I don't want them here. I drive my one when I go to Westminster and one on the way to Frederick. I always stop in and look at the things on the tables close to the front of the store and always end up buying something.

[Alex Oreilly]

So your saying, you would be broke if they put one in Gettysburg, FMB. Isn't that the same argument NCG had? Lol

It is on the same piece of land Crossroads wanted to go on

[segtours]

As much as I like TSC, I'd rather have a Home Depot!

[redlock]

Anyone attend? Can't wait to hear how this went although I'm sure I already know.

[orrtannaexpat]

Hardly a surprising result.

Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:06 am

By Beth Kanagy Times Staff Writer

While admitting that a Tractor Supply store would be welcome in the area, the Straban Township zoning hearing board voted unanimously to turn down a request for zoning variances on Wednesday evening.

Zoning hearing board member Robert McIlhenney made the motion and stated: "This is an example of how difficult it is at times to serve. Tractor Supply would be an asset to the area and I would like to see it built, but we're required to obey and interpret the ordinance and it must be applied. The applicants have shown no hardship. The applicant has created a hardship for themselves," he said.

[buckeye]

Straban Township officials, like so many others in the boroughs and townships of Adams County, seem to be unable or unwilling to work with businesses. Instead, these officials seem to go out of their way in throwing up hurdles to stop any and all development. A member of the board considering the proposed TSC said the developers created their own problems by not following the zoning regulations. In other words, these regulations are set in stone and cannot be altered or changed. No wonder so little new business locates anywhere in Adams County.

[davew]

Birdfeed, dogfood and mostly junky chinese tools. That's what comes to mind with TSC.

[Venter]

Straban zoning board turns down Tractor Supply

Posted: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:06 am  [Gettysburg Times]
By Beth Kanagy Times Staff Writer

While admitting that a Tractor Supply store would be welcome in the area, the Straban Township zoning hearing board voted unanimously to turn down a request for zoning variances on Wednesday evening.

Zoning hearing board member Robert McIlhenney made the motion and stated: "This is an example of how difficult it is at times to serve. Tractor Supply would be an asset to the area and I would like to see it built, but we're required to obey and interpret the ordinance and it must be applied. The applicants have shown no hardship. The applicant has created a hardship for themselves," he said.

The applicant, TKC CLXI, LLC, was seeking variances from the Zoning Ordinance that regulate parking in front of a building, display areas to the side and the front of the store, a reduction in the number of required parking spaces and screening of outdoor storage spaces.

The proposed store would sit on a 3.85 acre lot off of Smith Road and about 500 to 600 feet off of Route 30. The lot is currently under contract for purchase from Monahan Northside, LP. The lot is located in the EC-1 zoning district, which means a commerical operation is a permitted use.

The lot, which Straban Township Solictor Walton Davis pointed out, has not been submitted to the township as a subdivision yet, does not officially exist.

Mark Magrecki of Penn Terra Engineering, Inc. explained that the lot is an odd shape and that the building would be situated on high ground, which made providing the required 102 parking spaces for a proposed 19,097 square foot building difficult. TKC was requesting that that township allow 76 spaces.

The lot configuration also posed a problem for the retailer's use of outdoor display area as well as a fenced in display area. The ordinance requires screening of fenced outdoor storage.

TKC contended that the screening the fenced area from the road would be no issue, however, screening in front of the store posed a problem.

Davis stated that the township opposed granting of the variances.

"The hardship is self-created," said Davis.

Davis said that TKC purchased a lot that was simply too small to accomodate the store it wished to build.

"Mr. Magrecki mentioned the peculiar lot. But there's noting peculiar about this property, except they are designing it to be peculiar," he said. "This is raw land and a carved out lot that is too small for what they want to do."

Bernie Yanetti, who represented TKC, stated that the problem is the lot. "We truly believe the hardship is created is the shape of the lot. The parking design is sufficient. There is ample parking for the operation. It just makes sense. Granting the variances just makes sense."

"We have shown that this lot is unique and that the hardship is created by the shape of the lot. It would be appropriate to grant the variances that the applicant is seeking," Yanetti said.

Solicitor for the Zoning Hearing Board, Clayton Wilcox, suggested an executive session so that the board could review the legal issues. Following a 40-minute executive session, the board came back.

Chair Marcella Kammerer suggested the board make a motion and then discuss the issue. What followed were statements by Kammerer and Mary Redding, an alternate member of the zoning hearing board, that echoed McIlhenney's.

Wendy Fulton, a representative of TKC, said afterward that TKC will step back and take a look at the issues.

"It's up to Mr. Monahan if he'll sell some more land," she said. "I'm not sure yet where we go from here."

[Venter]

Sept 5, 2013 8:20:58 GMT -5 davew said:

Birdfeed, dogfood and mostly junky chinese tools. That's what comes to mind with TSC.

You must have never stepped past the front doors!
The "Chinese junk" is in a discount bin - otherwise their tools are nice tools.
Welding supplies, lawn supplies, tires/seats/hitches, fencing, gates, feed/seed, dog/sheep/goat/cow/horse feed and items, vet meds, clips/hangers/nuts/bolts/wire...
What more can a man need?


Once again, Straban doesn't fail to disappoint my impressions of them.
I would call them "Backwater", but I don't think there is any water.

Ah yes, I see how they are "preserving" the integrity of the historic region (at least I think that's what they are attempting to do).
I'm sure the area will look better with a bunch of boarded up stores, and storefront churches where there once stood thriving (surviving) businesses.
By preserving the past, they are sealing their future.
We all KNOW how much better off we are with all of the millions of dollars that we pocketed from the 150th Commemoration Events.
This windfall will keep us all happy for the next Century, for sure!

I guess 6,000 plus acres of Federally Protected, non-tax-paying land isn't enough to preserve!?

Zoning hearing board member Robert McIlhenney made the motion and stated: "This is an example of how difficult it is at times to serve. Tractor Supply would be an asset to the area and I would like to see it built, but we're required to obey and interpret the ordinance and it must be applied. The applicants have shown no hardship. The applicant has created a hardship for themselves," he said.

McIlhenny doesn't regret that Tractor Supply isn't being built - he's just proud to be able to keep it out of his back yard.
He and Walton Davis do their best to "Preserve".

Sure, ask Bob Monahan to sell them more property - so they'll pay more for property that they'll STILL have to fight Straban over its ability to use it the way they'd like.
Straban has created a Commercial District, and these bozos are doing everything they can to stifle it.

The mentality of "let's let them have a business", but they have to hide it behind this berm or hedgerow, and not allow proper signage, and make them put in an exorbitant amount of parking (adding to impermeable surfaces, by the way).
Starbucks is just one of the recent travesties of "You got here too late to have decent public exposure". 
It must be "Their Fault" that they wanted to move into an already established business district.
And I've heard about another store (a High's Store?) that wants to move into the old Mini Golf/Arcade next to Perkins, but can't get proper access!?

It's about time for those stores to insist on a service road behind, or between, all the buildings so they won't have to be restricted just because they can't get a Traffic Signal for safety's sake.
Or they all need to band together to sue the fuck out of Straban for restricting their abilities to do business in a reasonable, less-restrictive environment.

[davew]

Yeah, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to build there. One thing they did have the last time I was there were a couple of decent air compressors. Most of the rest of the place looked like a dog, bird and horse supply store with imported tools (I guess definition of junk varies - I call anything not made to last indefinitely a junk tool - a sioux brand drill is pretty much made to last forever, that's not a junk tool).

To the extent that you can go there and get consumables for welding and stuff, though, I can't see how they would be a detriment to straban.

My parents (who still live in straban) have no idea who the solicitor is, they have no idea why target and walmart are held up, and i'd imagine most of the residents in straban are in the same situation. It'd be interesting to see a survey of folks and ask them a couple of questions as well as "what's the name of the township solicitor for straban".

I don't fully understand why TKC would have purchased a lot that wasn't sufficient without variances, though - presumably they could've gotten a hold of the ordinances ahead of time and done some homework. They must be used to getting their way. A couple of calls around to attorneys in the area would've let them know that they wouldn't get any variances in straban.

That said, I've never seen a TSC with 76 cars in the lot. They're luck to have 7. My parents frequent the hanover store, but that's not as convenient for you folks who don't live halfway to new oxford.

[Fire Marshal Bill]

Sept 5, 2013 12:16:25 GMT -5 davew said:

Yeah, I'm not saying that they shouldn't be able to build there. One thing they did have the last time I was there were a couple of decent air compressors. Most of the rest of the place looked like a dog, bird and horse supply store with imported tools (I guess definition of junk varies - I call anything not made to last indefinitely a junk tool - a sioux brand drill is pretty much made to last forever, that's not a junk tool).

To the extent that you can go there and get consumables for welding and stuff, though, I can't see how they would be a detriment to straban.

My parents (who still live in straban) have no idea who the solicitor is, they have no idea why target and walmart are held up, and i'd imagine most of the residents in straban are in the same situation. It'd be interesting to see a survey of folks and ask them a couple of questions as well as "what's the name of the township solicitor for straban".

I don't fully understand why TKC would have purchased a lot that wasn't sufficient without variances, though - presumably they could've gotten a hold of the ordinances ahead of time and done some homework. They must be used to getting their way. A couple of calls around to attorneys in the area would've let them know that they wouldn't get any variances in straban.

That said, I've never seen a TSC with 76 cars in the lot. They're luck to have 7. My parents frequent the hanover store, but that's not as convenient for you folks who don't live halfway to new oxford.

They don't own it yet.

"The proposed store would sit on a 3.85 acre lot off of Smith Road and about 500 to 600 feet off of Route 30. The lot is currently under contract for purchase from Monahan Northside, LP."

I believe I read someplace that purchase is contingent on approval.

[Venter]

I think it's time for Bob Monahan to throw some weight around.

So far, he's made money renting to a Casino that never came, and now a Tractor Supply that may be blocked.
Not bad if you can get the work!

How about the Economic Development lots across the street?
But then again, Straban makes THEM jump through hoops too.
The "Cancer Center" (or whatever it's called), is not allowed signage on the Route 30 Facade, because they already have signs on the "Front" of the building.

These companies need to get some balls and do what they need to do to in order to survive, and maybe even, God Forbid... PROSPER!
Maybe a Straban Corridor Coalition is in order!?
Once they all see that they are getting fucked, then they may decide to combine forces.

[Alex Oreilly]

I'm sure it is common practice for a business wanting to develop in any Township always asks for some variences so they can build their stores to their designs, not every company has the same size and shape of stores, everybody is a little different so you can not just have one size fits all rules and regulations.

Straban Township is getting out of hand of doing things for what the Supervisors want and not of what their Constituents what. It is time for somebody to step and confront them at meetings or in the courtroom.

[Venter]

By the way, if anyone wants to begin paying me rent for my property, in the hopes that you may be able to open a chicken factory, WalMart, Lowe's, Tractor Supply, or something, please let me know.
Of course, you will have to do all of the legwork, and pay all necessary fees, etc. - and the money is non-refundable in case you are denied.
Starts at $15,000 per month, and an option/requirement to buy (I don't want to live next to a chicken farm)

[Venter]

Sept 5, 2013 16:29:16 GMT -5 Alex Oreilly said:

I'm sure it is common practice for a business wanting to develop in any Township always asks for some variences so they can build their stores to their designs, not every company has the same size and shape of stores, everybody is a little different so you can not just have one size fits all rules and regulations.

Straban Township is getting out of hand of doing things for what the Supervisors want and not of what their Constituents what. It is time for somebody to step and confront them at meetings or in the courtroom.

Alex,
One of the things I hear the most from businesses is, "I don't want to cause troubles. I may need help from the Township/Borough in the future."

Excuse me, but if you are doing a legal business in a properly zoned district (whatever the fuck that means), then you owe it to yourself and your family to succeed.
It looks like the concerns of Straban are mainly "Cosmetic" issues.
They aren't concerned with having a strong business community.

Why can't we begin a Business District in Cumberland Township with good access from Route 15?
Come on guys, it's about time!

[getysbg]

Does anyone know what deals Straban Twp has turned down in the past few years? It might make for an interesting LTE.

[Alex Oreilly]

Sept 5, 2013 16:36:49 GMT -5 Venter said:

Sept 5, 2013 16:29:16 GMT -5 Alex Oreilly said:

I'm sure it is common practice for a business wanting to develop in any Township always asks for some variences so they can build their stores to their designs, not every company has the same size and shape of stores, everybody is a little different so you can not just have one size fits all rules and regulations.

Straban Township is getting out of hand of doing things for what the Supervisors want and not of what their Constituents what. It is time for somebody to step and confront them at meetings or in the courtroom.

Alex,
One of the things I hear the most from businesses is, "I don't want to cause troubles. I may need help from the Township/Borough in the future."

Excuse me, but if you are doing a legal business in a properly zoned district (whatever the fuck that means), then you owe it to yourself and your family to succeed.
It looks like the concerns of Straban are mainly "Cosmetic" issues.
They aren't concerned with having a strong business community.

Why can't we begin a Business District in Cumberland Township with good access from Route 15?
Come on guys, it's about time!

Maybe it is time for a group to form and organize to help businesses with zoning issues to come into Gettysburg/Adams County.

[Alex Oreilly]

Sept 5, 2013 18:36:25 GMT -5 getysbg said:

Does anyone know what deals Straban Twp has turned down in the past few years? It might make for an interesting LTE.

The Super Walmart is one development that they keep jerking around and I believe the Target/Kohls develpoment is another. A couple years ago another developer wanted to buy the old Renn Kirby Dealership and make it into a retail merchant area.

[Fire Marshal Bill]

I’m not sure how Straban Township has things written for a variance to be approved.

Apparently there must be some “hardship” conditions.

Most types of operations I have ever been involved with use the “intent” of the code as opposed to the “Letter” of the code. And most allow for trade a trade off of some kind.

We will grant a variance to the 102 parking spaces, allowing only 76 provided your parking are be of a permeable surface.

We will grant a variance to the screened display area provided no more than one sample of each item that can’t be properly displayed inside the store be on display, and not more than 600 square feet be used for this.

In my opinion, variances should be used to assist the businesses rather than hampering them.

[redlock]

I wish there was a way for us residents of Straban to band together and stop paying taxes in protest to their obvious anti-business, anti-tax relief.

[Dexter]

Here's what I think, FWIW, the rules exist, the company should know those rules and make their decisions appropriately. I think things can get very grey and become a slippery slope if you make decisions on variances based on who it is and what they want What is the point of making conditions and rules if you can wantonly change them and adjust them anytime you want? Now, I would love a TSC to come into the area, but, that fact shouldn't mean that they can disregard the rules or get them changed at will. It reminds me of the issue with the proposed African American Museum (was it Underground Railroad?) Anyway, the folks felt that their "just cause" was enough for the boro to change its rules. I disagreed on that case and disagree with this one as well.

[Alex Oreilly]

Sept 5, 2013 21:27:55 GMT -5 Dexter said:

Here's what I think, FWIW, the rules exist, the company should know those rules and make their decisions appropriately. I think things can get very grey and become a slippery slope if you make decisions on variances based on who it is and what they want What is the point of making conditions and rules if you can wantonly change them and adjust them anytime you want? Now, I would love a TSC to come into the area, but, that fact shouldn't mean that they can disregard the rules or get them changed at will. It reminds me of the issue with the proposed African American Museum (was it Underground Railroad?) Anyway, the folks felt that their "just cause" was enough for the boro to change its rules. I disagreed on that case and disagree with this one as well.

Again I say Dexter, not all companies are the same in design, one size fits all rule doesnt work, yes the township needs rules and regulations but they have to compromise and work together not just well sorry but do it our way or no way

[Alex Oreilly]

Sept 5, 2013 21:23:44 GMT -5 redlock said:

I wish there was a way for us residents of Straban to band together and stop paying taxes in protest to their obvious anti-business, anti-tax relief.

Redlock, start one yourself, if Al Ferranto can do it in Cumberland Township anyone can.