MattC
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Post by MattC on Feb 24, 2011 14:03:27 GMT -5
Just not true. Keep your head in the sand.
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dspitz17325
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Post by dspitz17325 on Feb 26, 2011 21:55:28 GMT -5
I hate socialism but there is a need for us to help the poor but not the lazy and if we stop paying for these politicians illegal antics we might be able to help our own Countrymen who need help , there is a happy medium and we need to find it if not we will see a real civil war where all the politicians will not survive.
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 6, 2011 14:21:29 GMT -5
spitz, this country used to take of its own through private organizations. don't let liberals fool you and say that Americans don't care, are greedy, etc. Study after study comes that shows it's just not true ad that Americans are the most giving in the civilized world and, ironically, non-rich republicans give more than the liberals that tell us to do so. i'd link you to these studies but i'm running out the door. a quick google search will show you.
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C.O.
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Post by C.O. on Mar 14, 2011 12:18:39 GMT -5
My head, WAS in the sand...for about a year. I remember hating Bush deerly for it. I remember buying into all the conspiracy theories, repeating all the propaganda to everybody that would hear it, and just stewing over how stupid people must have been to vote for him. Now I think back and realize how stupid I was to loathe him! Now a days I hear him talk, watch his documentaries and movies, even read some of his book and have a little bit of respect for him. He was the person over half this county elected to lead us, and like him or hate him, the longest he can hold the position is 8 years. I have a feeling that about 10 years from now, 2 years removed of Obama leaving office, Matt will be feeling the same way about him. The guy who came from nothing but through sheer determination rose to the highest office in the land, ending the chain of pollitical families and celebrities. One of those true American dream stories conservatives love so much.
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HoneyBadger
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Post by HoneyBadger on Mar 14, 2011 18:29:02 GMT -5
My head, WAS in the sand...for about a year. I remember hating Bush deerly for it. I remember buying into all the conspiracy theories, repeating all the propaganda to everybody that would hear it, and just stewing over how stupid people must have been to vote for him. Now I think back and realize how stupid I was to loathe him! Now a days I hear him talk, watch his documentaries and movies, even read some of his book and have a little bit of respect for him. He was the person over half this county elected to lead us, and like him or hate him, the longest he can hold the position is 8 years. I have a feeling that about 10 years from now, 2 years removed of Obama leaving office, Matt will be feeling the same way about him. The guy who came from nothing but through sheer determination rose to the highest office in the land, ending the chain of pollitical families and celebrities. One of those true American dream stories conservatives love so much. Yeah, I'm still a nimrod too.
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 15, 2011 11:37:49 GMT -5
C.O., I never liked Obama from the moment he started speaking because I don't believe what he believes and I knew things would get worse because of the things he will institute. So far, nothing is proving me wrong. I'll never change my stripes and as long as his are the opposite of mine, there's no way I can miss him. I hate hating him and I hate how he is dismantling our country. Obviously, since you still support him, you knew he would dismantle the country and are for it. Either that or, I hate to say, you're one of the "useful idiots" he needs. I hope it's the former, not the latter.
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C.O.
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Post by C.O. on Mar 15, 2011 13:10:52 GMT -5
I never changed my stances, either. I've always been a mid road Independant. I'm just sayin I was saying the same things about Bush you are saying about Obama...how hes destroying America and so fourth, kinda like his INTENTIONS are to destroy America or something. But we made it through 8 years of Bush still intact, and we will make it make it through 8 years of Obama intact. I'm not a lover of all things Obama either, don't get that impression. Some someone like Mitt Romney got the Nomination, I'd vote for him over Obama. I just got a bad feeling whoever gets the republican nomination will pailin comparison to Obama...that why we will end up with him for 8 years.
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dspitz17325
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Post by dspitz17325 on Mar 16, 2011 10:45:12 GMT -5
I never changed my stances, either. I've always been a mid road Independant. I'm just sayin I was saying the same things about Bush you are saying about Obama...how hes destroying America and so fourth, kinda like his INTENTIONS are to destroy America or something. But we made it through 8 years of Bush still intact, and we will make it make it through 8 years of Obama intact. I'm not a lover of all things Obama either, don't get that impression. Some someone like Mitt Romney got the Nomination, I'd vote for him over Obama. I just got a bad feeling whoever gets the republican nomination will pailin comparison to Obama...that why we will end up with him for 8 years. We actually let America go to hell when we allowed the Federal Government to tax income , and they have been getting away with wiping their asses with the US Constitution ever since .But when you vote remember who threw out the program that helps people pay their utility bills that was OBIE NOT THE REPUBLICANS after all who cares they are only poor they don't matter .
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Post by rienzi on Mar 16, 2011 16:00:05 GMT -5
I never changed my stances, either. I've always been a mid road Independant. I'm just sayin I was saying the same things about Bush you are saying about Obama...how hes destroying America and so fourth, kinda like his INTENTIONS are to destroy America or something. But we made it through 8 years of Bush still intact, and we will make it make it through 8 years of Obama intact. I'm not a lover of all things Obama either, don't get that impression. Some someone like Mitt Romney got the Nomination, I'd vote for him over Obama. I just got a bad feeling whoever gets the republican nomination will pailin comparison to Obama...that why we will end up with him for 8 years. I don't think Bush and Obama are equal comparisons. Bush, though unpopular, did what most American Presidents have done or would have done as far as war goes. The Left didn't like him for that because they knew if he had succeeded, it would have strengthened us like WWII did. The Left, Obama, et al, cannot thrive with a strong America. So what made Bush unpopular was his willingness to defend the country against its enemies. Period. Those who opposed him at home and abroad did so for one of two reasons. Cowardice or malicious intent for the U.S. If you need more evidence, just look at how Obama has done many things the Left said Bush should have done only to throw us into greater ruin at a much faster pace. Obama reminds me of a high school study body president who was elected because he promised more soda machines in the hallway and every friday off. Two things he can't deliver on, but, hey, at least the students have hope for those things happening. He's an amateur in a time when we need a grown up at the helm.
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Post by rienzi on Mar 16, 2011 16:01:41 GMT -5
I never changed my stances, either. I've always been a mid road Independant. I'm just sayin I was saying the same things about Bush you are saying about Obama...how hes destroying America and so fourth, kinda like his INTENTIONS are to destroy America or something. But we made it through 8 years of Bush still intact, and we will make it make it through 8 years of Obama intact. I'm not a lover of all things Obama either, don't get that impression. Some someone like Mitt Romney got the Nomination, I'd vote for him over Obama. I just got a bad feeling whoever gets the republican nomination will pailin comparison to Obama...that why we will end up with him for 8 years. We actually let America go to hell when we allowed the Federal Government to tax income , and they have been getting away with wiping their asses with the US Constitution ever since .But when you vote remember who threw out the program that helps people pay their utility bills that was OBIE NOT THE REPUBLICANS after all who cares they are only poor they don't matter . I had to laugh because I saw someone defend Obie's second amendment support by saying he allows people to carry in national parks. Hilarious. That just so happened to occur on his watch, but it was in a law that Bush signed.
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Post by poindexter on Mar 16, 2011 17:30:45 GMT -5
I never changed my stances, either. I've always been a mid road Independant. I'm just sayin I was saying the same things about Bush you are saying about Obama...how hes destroying America and so fourth, kinda like his INTENTIONS are to destroy America or something. But we made it through 8 years of Bush still intact, and we will make it make it through 8 years of Obama intact. I'm not a lover of all things Obama either, don't get that impression. Some someone like Mitt Romney got the Nomination, I'd vote for him over Obama. I just got a bad feeling whoever gets the republican nomination will pailin comparison to Obama...that why we will end up with him for 8 years. I don't think Bush and Obama are equal comparisons. Bush, though unpopular, did what most American Presidents have done or would have done as far as war goes. The Left didn't like him for that because they knew if he had succeeded, it would have strengthened us like WWII did. The Left, Obama, et al, cannot thrive with a strong America. So what made Bush unpopular was his willingness to defend the country against its enemies. Period. Those who opposed him at home and abroad did so for one of two reasons. Cowardice or malicious intent for the U.S. If you need more evidence, just look at how Obama has done many things the Left said Bush should have done only to throw us into greater ruin at a much faster pace. Obama reminds me of a high school study body president who was elected because he promised more soda machines in the hallway and every friday off. Two things he can't deliver on, but, hey, at least the students have hope for those things happening. He's an amateur in a time when we need a grown up at the helm. Damn it to hell! Now I have to clean the puke out of my keyboard again! Thanks a lot Obama!
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C.O.
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Post by C.O. on Mar 17, 2011 9:17:35 GMT -5
We actually let America go to hell when we allowed the Federal Government to tax income , and they have been getting away with wiping their asses with the US Constitution ever since .But when you vote remember who threw out the program that helps people pay their utility bills that was OBIE NOT THE REPUBLICANS after all who cares they are only poor they don't matter . Didn't we already cover this...how can you complain about income tax, and THEN complain about a program that got cut that we wouldnt have if we didn't have income tax?
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C.O.
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Post by C.O. on Mar 17, 2011 9:23:17 GMT -5
I don't think Bush and Obama are equal comparisons. Bush, though unpopular, did what most American Presidents have done or would have done as far as war goes. The Left didn't like him for that because they knew if he had succeeded, it would have strengthened us like WWII did. The Left, Obama, et al, cannot thrive with a strong America. So what made Bush unpopular was his willingness to defend the country against its enemies. Period. Those who opposed him at home and abroad did so for one of two reasons. Cowardice or malicious intent for the U.S. If you need more evidence, just look at how Obama has done many things the Left said Bush should have done only to throw us into greater ruin at a much faster pace. Obama reminds me of a high school study body president who was elected because he promised more soda machines in the hallway and every friday off. Two things he can't deliver on, but, hey, at least the students have hope for those things happening. He's an amateur in a time when we need a grown up at the helm. Liberals can't thrive without poverty, Conservatives can't thrive without war...they both kinda suck so I don't understand why people are choosing what they believe is the lesser of two evils be they democrats OR republicans. Every two years both parties push people through that are either one extreme or the other. Why can't we meet somewhere in the middle?
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 18, 2011 15:42:06 GMT -5
I don't think Bush and Obama are equal comparisons. Bush, though unpopular, did what most American Presidents have done or would have done as far as war goes. The Left didn't like him for that because they knew if he had succeeded, it would have strengthened us like WWII did. The Left, Obama, et al, cannot thrive with a strong America. So what made Bush unpopular was his willingness to defend the country against its enemies. Period. Those who opposed him at home and abroad did so for one of two reasons. Cowardice or malicious intent for the U.S. If you need more evidence, just look at how Obama has done many things the Left said Bush should have done only to throw us into greater ruin at a much faster pace. Obama reminds me of a high school study body president who was elected because he promised more soda machines in the hallway and every friday off. Two things he can't deliver on, but, hey, at least the students have hope for those things happening. He's an amateur in a time when we need a grown up at the helm. Liberals can't thrive without poverty, Conservatives can't thrive without war...they both kinda suck so I don't understand why people are choosing what they believe is the lesser of two evils be they democrats OR republicans. Every two years both parties push people through that are either one extreme or the other. Why can't we meet somewhere in the middle? Because the middle gets nobody anywhere. I think it's funny how Liberals all of a sudden want compromise when they realize they are getting shellacked. You have to remember something, the mental disease that is liberalism is a new thought. It's only a little more than 100 years old. It's a new way to bring about an ancient form of government like a monarchy or tyranny of one form or another. So, what we're seeing now, is the majority of Americans rejecting liberalism. It's being exposed for the failed and flawed way of thinking and governing that it is. It's failing everywhere, not just here. I am saying this to remind you that liberals introduced new ideas that they knew from the start were counter to the American system. But they implemented it slowly over time, the only way they knew it could work without bloodshed, only to find that we don't want it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we spoke up too late. It's ingrained in our every institution and it's a cancer to a healthy society. We are at another turning point in our history where we must conclusively decide between right and wrong. the Revolution settled the question of whether a man has more control of his destiny than a King has over it. The civil war answered whether the guy next to you had the right to buy you from someone who bought you from your neighbor who looked a lot more like you. And, now, we are almost back to re-fighting the revolution that started this country. Does a President, or a congress, or a think tank that a president or congress employs, know what's best for an individual than the individual does. I say, we answered this over and over again, each time with a resounding "no". And, I would like you, C.O., to be the first liberal in history to not only throw out the accusation that conservatives can't thrive without war who backs it up with evidence. I know many conservatives. Not one has profited from a war. I'd also like to see the tax returns that you are obviously privy to that shows that republican officials, i.e. Bush, Cheney, et al., have profited from our current wars. I think it's a weak accusation and I also think that no liberal will ever thing ANY war is just if it's a war that will protect us from destruction. Especially if we win it, which is why the left never lets us win a war anymore. We do agree on one thing, I assume, these wars are getting ridiculous. We should pull out, but here's where we may differ. I say pull out everywhere. Close all of our bases and let the wonderful European nations foot the bill for fixing the world's problems. They always have a wheelbarrow-full of criticisms for us and how we behave. I say enough. Pull out and let them fend for themselves. Then, we can let our enemies just come here to kill us instead of sending our boys somewhere else. Another thing that will please your liberal inclinations is that we can help the people who hate us finally like us. This is because they will not only be able to kill our soldiers, but take out a bunch of our civilians as well. We'll all be neatly packed into our Continental Basket right here in the good old U.S. of A. This conservative, who is not actually a conservative, but Libertarian, is sick of wars that we won't win. The only war I think will be worth our time is the one that is coming between Americans and Liberals. That's right, I'm saying Liberals aren't Americans. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade.
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HoneyBadger
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Post by HoneyBadger on Mar 18, 2011 15:56:22 GMT -5
Liberals can't thrive without poverty, Conservatives can't thrive without war...they both kinda suck so I don't understand why people are choosing what they believe is the lesser of two evils be they democrats OR republicans. Every two years both parties push people through that are either one extreme or the other. Why can't we meet somewhere in the middle? Because the middle gets nobody anywhere. I think it's funny how Liberals all of a sudden want compromise when they realize they are getting shellacked. You have to remember something, the mental disease that is liberalism is a new thought. It's only a little more than 100 years old. It's a new way to bring about an ancient form of government like a monarchy or tyranny of one form or another. So, what we're seeing now, is the majority of Americans rejecting liberalism. It's being exposed for the failed and flawed way of thinking and governing that it is. It's failing everywhere, not just here. I am saying this to remind you that liberals introduced new ideas that they knew from the start were counter to the American system. But they implemented it slowly over time, the only way they knew it could work without bloodshed, only to find that we don't want it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we spoke up too late. It's ingrained in our every institution and it's a cancer to a healthy society. We are at another turning point in our history where we must conclusively decide between right and wrong. the Revolution settled the question of whether a man has more control of his destiny than a King has over it. The civil war answered whether the guy next to you had the right to buy you from someone who bought you from your neighbor who looked a lot more like you. And, now, we are almost back to re-fighting the revolution that started this country. Does a President, or a congress, or a think tank that a president or congress employs, know what's best for an individual than the individual does. I say, we answered this over and over again, each time with a resounding "no". And, I would like you, C.O., to be the first liberal in history to not only throw out the accusation that conservatives can't thrive without war who backs it up with evidence. I know many conservatives. Not one has profited from a war. I'd also like to see the tax returns that you are obviously privy to that shows that republican officials, i.e. Bush, Cheney, et al., have profited from our current wars. I think it's a weak accusation and I also think that no liberal will ever thing ANY war is just if it's a war that will protect us from destruction. Especially if we win it, which is why the left never lets us win a war anymore. We do agree on one thing, I assume, these wars are getting ridiculous. We should pull out, but here's where we may differ. I say pull out everywhere. Close all of our bases and let the wonderful European nations foot the bill for fixing the world's problems. They always have a wheelbarrow-full of criticisms for us and how we behave. I say enough. Pull out and let them fend for themselves. Then, we can let our enemies just come here to kill us instead of sending our boys somewhere else. Another thing that will please your liberal inclinations is that we can help the people who hate us finally like us. This is because they will not only be able to kill our soldiers, but take out a bunch of our civilians as well. We'll all be neatly packed into our Continental Basket right here in the good old U.S. of A. This conservative, who is not actually a conservative, but Libertarian, is sick of wars that we won't win. The only war I think will be worth our time is the one that is coming between Americans and Liberals. That's right, I'm saying Liberals aren't Americans. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. Matt, sometimes you really piss me off. I'm not taking your comments personally but really - liberals aren't Americans? Are Beck and Limbaugh and O'Reilly and Hannity and Palin and the rest of those scum suckers Americans? If they are I'm damned glad that you think I'm not.
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Post by poindexter on Mar 18, 2011 18:39:46 GMT -5
Liberals can't thrive without poverty, Conservatives can't thrive without war...they both kinda suck so I don't understand why people are choosing what they believe is the lesser of two evils be they democrats OR republicans. Every two years both parties push people through that are either one extreme or the other. Why can't we meet somewhere in the middle? Because the middle gets nobody anywhere. I think it's funny how Liberals all of a sudden want compromise when they realize they are getting shellacked. You have to remember something, the mental disease that is liberalism is a new thought. It's only a little more than 100 years old. It's a new way to bring about an ancient form of government like a monarchy or tyranny of one form or another. So, what we're seeing now, is the majority of Americans rejecting liberalism. It's being exposed for the failed and flawed way of thinking and governing that it is. It's failing everywhere, not just here. I am saying this to remind you that liberals introduced new ideas that they knew from the start were counter to the American system. But they implemented it slowly over time, the only way they knew it could work without bloodshed, only to find that we don't want it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we spoke up too late. It's ingrained in our every institution and it's a cancer to a healthy society. We are at another turning point in our history where we must conclusively decide between right and wrong. the Revolution settled the question of whether a man has more control of his destiny than a King has over it. The civil war answered whether the guy next to you had the right to buy you from someone who bought you from your neighbor who looked a lot more like you. And, now, we are almost back to re-fighting the revolution that started this country. Does a President, or a congress, or a think tank that a president or congress employs, know what's best for an individual than the individual does. I say, we answered this over and over again, each time with a resounding "no". And, I would like you, C.O., to be the first liberal in history to not only throw out the accusation that conservatives can't thrive without war who backs it up with evidence. I know many conservatives. Not one has profited from a war. I'd also like to see the tax returns that you are obviously privy to that shows that republican officials, i.e. Bush, Cheney, et al., have profited from our current wars. I think it's a weak accusation and I also think that no liberal will ever thing ANY war is just if it's a war that will protect us from destruction. Especially if we win it, which is why the left never lets us win a war anymore. We do agree on one thing, I assume, these wars are getting ridiculous. We should pull out, but here's where we may differ. I say pull out everywhere. Close all of our bases and let the wonderful European nations foot the bill for fixing the world's problems. They always have a wheelbarrow-full of criticisms for us and how we behave. I say enough. Pull out and let them fend for themselves. Then, we can let our enemies just come here to kill us instead of sending our boys somewhere else. Another thing that will please your liberal inclinations is that we can help the people who hate us finally like us. This is because they will not only be able to kill our soldiers, but take out a bunch of our civilians as well. We'll all be neatly packed into our Continental Basket right here in the good old U.S. of A. This conservative, who is not actually a conservative, but Libertarian, is sick of wars that we won't win. The only war I think will be worth our time is the one that is coming between Americans and Liberals. That's right, I'm saying Liberals aren't Americans. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. This has got be be a record. I have never seen so much bullshit packed into one on-line post. I smelled it wafting from my screen before I even opened the thread. Bravo Matt......
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C.O.
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Post by C.O. on Mar 19, 2011 5:16:22 GMT -5
wow that is some deep stuff, I don't even know where to start my rebuttal. Liberalism is a new concept, you are right. But that is just if you are looking at it as a concept that began with Marx. This county, though was founded on some concepts that are looked at now a days as 'liberal"becaue you can tie them into what marx was getting at with his phisosophy. Our country was actually founded on masonic philosophty, which you Mr. C. should be familiar with since it is considered a libertarian phosophy. Long before they founded our country, they created a "brotherhood of equality". The first ever democracies were within Mason lodges where all members had an equal vote in choosing representatives. Without delving deeper into their philosophies, im just gonna say the "every man for himself" "may the best ideas of the best man make HIM prosper" actually deviate from this philosophy. the Ideals of capitalism were founded in this country within our country's lifetime. The every man should be treated as an equal philosophy came waaaay before that. Now, look at that top countries in the world right now. It's not us any more. You blame that on the liberal philosophy. But look at the contries that ARE ahead of us now. Finland. Switzerland. Sweeden. Norway. CANADA! I ask you, wht philosophies helped them surpass us?
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 19, 2011 15:13:48 GMT -5
Because the middle gets nobody anywhere. I think it's funny how Liberals all of a sudden want compromise when they realize they are getting shellacked. You have to remember something, the mental disease that is liberalism is a new thought. It's only a little more than 100 years old. It's a new way to bring about an ancient form of government like a monarchy or tyranny of one form or another. So, what we're seeing now, is the majority of Americans rejecting liberalism. It's being exposed for the failed and flawed way of thinking and governing that it is. It's failing everywhere, not just here. I am saying this to remind you that liberals introduced new ideas that they knew from the start were counter to the American system. But they implemented it slowly over time, the only way they knew it could work without bloodshed, only to find that we don't want it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we spoke up too late. It's ingrained in our every institution and it's a cancer to a healthy society. We are at another turning point in our history where we must conclusively decide between right and wrong. the Revolution settled the question of whether a man has more control of his destiny than a King has over it. The civil war answered whether the guy next to you had the right to buy you from someone who bought you from your neighbor who looked a lot more like you. And, now, we are almost back to re-fighting the revolution that started this country. Does a President, or a congress, or a think tank that a president or congress employs, know what's best for an individual than the individual does. I say, we answered this over and over again, each time with a resounding "no". And, I would like you, C.O., to be the first liberal in history to not only throw out the accusation that conservatives can't thrive without war who backs it up with evidence. I know many conservatives. Not one has profited from a war. I'd also like to see the tax returns that you are obviously privy to that shows that republican officials, i.e. Bush, Cheney, et al., have profited from our current wars. I think it's a weak accusation and I also think that no liberal will ever thing ANY war is just if it's a war that will protect us from destruction. Especially if we win it, which is why the left never lets us win a war anymore. We do agree on one thing, I assume, these wars are getting ridiculous. We should pull out, but here's where we may differ. I say pull out everywhere. Close all of our bases and let the wonderful European nations foot the bill for fixing the world's problems. They always have a wheelbarrow-full of criticisms for us and how we behave. I say enough. Pull out and let them fend for themselves. Then, we can let our enemies just come here to kill us instead of sending our boys somewhere else. Another thing that will please your liberal inclinations is that we can help the people who hate us finally like us. This is because they will not only be able to kill our soldiers, but take out a bunch of our civilians as well. We'll all be neatly packed into our Continental Basket right here in the good old U.S. of A. This conservative, who is not actually a conservative, but Libertarian, is sick of wars that we won't win. The only war I think will be worth our time is the one that is coming between Americans and Liberals. That's right, I'm saying Liberals aren't Americans. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. This has got be be a record. I have never seen so much bullshit packed into one on-line post. I smelled it wafting from my screen before I even opened the thread. Bravo Matt...... Takes a bullshitter to know a bullshitter. But, seriously, explain how what I said is bull. And back it up. Don't just repeat moveon.org bumper stickers
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 19, 2011 15:34:39 GMT -5
Because the middle gets nobody anywhere. I think it's funny how Liberals all of a sudden want compromise when they realize they are getting shellacked. You have to remember something, the mental disease that is liberalism is a new thought. It's only a little more than 100 years old. It's a new way to bring about an ancient form of government like a monarchy or tyranny of one form or another. So, what we're seeing now, is the majority of Americans rejecting liberalism. It's being exposed for the failed and flawed way of thinking and governing that it is. It's failing everywhere, not just here. I am saying this to remind you that liberals introduced new ideas that they knew from the start were counter to the American system. But they implemented it slowly over time, the only way they knew it could work without bloodshed, only to find that we don't want it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, we spoke up too late. It's ingrained in our every institution and it's a cancer to a healthy society. We are at another turning point in our history where we must conclusively decide between right and wrong. the Revolution settled the question of whether a man has more control of his destiny than a King has over it. The civil war answered whether the guy next to you had the right to buy you from someone who bought you from your neighbor who looked a lot more like you. And, now, we are almost back to re-fighting the revolution that started this country. Does a President, or a congress, or a think tank that a president or congress employs, know what's best for an individual than the individual does. I say, we answered this over and over again, each time with a resounding "no". And, I would like you, C.O., to be the first liberal in history to not only throw out the accusation that conservatives can't thrive without war who backs it up with evidence. I know many conservatives. Not one has profited from a war. I'd also like to see the tax returns that you are obviously privy to that shows that republican officials, i.e. Bush, Cheney, et al., have profited from our current wars. I think it's a weak accusation and I also think that no liberal will ever thing ANY war is just if it's a war that will protect us from destruction. Especially if we win it, which is why the left never lets us win a war anymore. We do agree on one thing, I assume, these wars are getting ridiculous. We should pull out, but here's where we may differ. I say pull out everywhere. Close all of our bases and let the wonderful European nations foot the bill for fixing the world's problems. They always have a wheelbarrow-full of criticisms for us and how we behave. I say enough. Pull out and let them fend for themselves. Then, we can let our enemies just come here to kill us instead of sending our boys somewhere else. Another thing that will please your liberal inclinations is that we can help the people who hate us finally like us. This is because they will not only be able to kill our soldiers, but take out a bunch of our civilians as well. We'll all be neatly packed into our Continental Basket right here in the good old U.S. of A. This conservative, who is not actually a conservative, but Libertarian, is sick of wars that we won't win. The only war I think will be worth our time is the one that is coming between Americans and Liberals. That's right, I'm saying Liberals aren't Americans. It's about time we start calling a spade a spade. Matt, sometimes you really piss me off. I'm not taking your comments personally but really - liberals aren't Americans? Are Beck and Limbaugh and O'Reilly and Hannity and Palin and the rest of those scum suckers Americans? If they are I'm damned glad that you think I'm not. Townie, we always go through this. I forget I have to clarify. A Liberal, capital "L", is a Marxist in disguise or a moron who doesn't know what they're supporting when supporting a Liberal candidate. A liberal, lower-case, is, I hope, all Americans. We were founded as a liberal country. The word has been bastardized to cover up Marxist beliefs. They used to be called progressives, but that apparently didn't do the trick for them, so Liberal became the name. However, they have never been liberal. They've been Marxists all along relying on fooling us to believe that what they propose is and always has been the epitome of "American". Stealing from the rich to give to the poor with the hand of the Federal government, has NEVER been American. But it's always been Liberal. So, Townie, you tell me. Are you or aren't you an American. Sure, you're a citizen. But are you a liberal American or a American-Liberal? Only one is close to a true American. The other is hardly better than a Frenchman.
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MattC
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Post by MattC on Mar 19, 2011 15:38:19 GMT -5
wow that is some deep stuff, I don't even know where to start my rebuttal. Liberalism is a new concept, you are right. But that is just if you are looking at it as a concept that began with Marx. This county, though was founded on some concepts that are looked at now a days as 'liberal"becaue you can tie them into what marx was getting at with his phisosophy. Our country was actually founded on masonic philosophty, which you Mr. C. should be familiar with since it is considered a libertarian phosophy. Long before they founded our country, they created a "brotherhood of equality". The first ever democracies were within Mason lodges where all members had an equal vote in choosing representatives. Without delving deeper into their philosophies, im just gonna say the "every man for himself" "may the best ideas of the best man make HIM prosper" actually deviate from this philosophy. the Ideals of capitalism were founded in this country within our country's lifetime. The every man should be treated as an equal philosophy came waaaay before that. Now, look at that top countries in the world right now. It's not us any more. You blame that on the liberal philosophy. But look at the contries that ARE ahead of us now. Finland. Switzerland. Sweeden. Norway. CANADA! I ask you, wht philosophies helped them surpass us? Not liberalism. And I assure you it wasn't the policies they enacted that helped them surpass us, but, rather, policies WE enacted that hurt us, causing it to seem like they are surpassing us. We are really falling behind. Look up Lincoln's line about how America will die. It's been happening since Teddy Roosevelt. First, let's make sure our terminology is the same. When I say "Liberal", or "Liberalism", I am referring to what you pointed out stems from Marxism. Our founders used liberal (lower-case "l") thought to found the country. However, it is capitalism that is the tool to guarantee liberty, independence and freedom. They knew that if man was able to earn as much as he was willing to strive for, he would truly be without the need for government. Liberalism, as we know it today, has known that and, therefore, has created programs that would create dependency on government. They have also punished success with out tax system... More on this later. Gene and I are going to get Chinese food.
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C.O.
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thinblueline.com
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Post by C.O. on Mar 19, 2011 23:33:27 GMT -5
My point was those countires became better than us using the same economic strategy you are claiming brought THIS country down! I'm not getting your whole Liberalism liberalism thing. I understand that this country was founded on some liberal ideals, that was the point i was getting at in my last message. Give me an example. Tell me how universal health care is Liberal and how its NOT liberal.
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dspitz17325
Need to Get a Life!
I came to chew bubblegum and kick some ass and i am all out of bubblegum .
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Post by dspitz17325 on Mar 25, 2011 7:30:07 GMT -5
I must say this about Obama he has done something no other President before him did , he declared war on a country that in NO WAY THREATENED us and he did it without the approval of the Congress if Bush did that they would have hung him for treason . The US Constitution states the President can not start any war without Congress voting on it first even Roosevelt had to wait till Congress gave the OK to go war with Japan after they attacked our country FIRST , and Lybia did nothing but try to quash a rebellion . I am not saying he was wrong but the laws are there for a reason and he purposely broke them , to see if he could get away with it . How much more of his lack of respect for this country and our Constitution how long are we to tolerate this before we say ENOUGH .And the worse part is with our judgment in the past by backing the wrong horse ,why would we think the rebels will put a stable person to run that country we must stop interfering with the world and maybe worry about our own Country .Benjamin Harrison said these words and we still haven't learned from them "WE AS AMERICANS HAVE NO COMMISSION FROM GOD TO POLICE THE WORLD " .
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HoneyBadger
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Post by HoneyBadger on Mar 25, 2011 14:48:33 GMT -5
Matt, sometimes you really piss me off. I'm not taking your comments personally but really - liberals aren't Americans? Are Beck and Limbaugh and O'Reilly and Hannity and Palin and the rest of those scum suckers Americans? If they are I'm damned glad that you think I'm not. Townie, we always go through this. I forget I have to clarify. A Liberal, capital "L", is a Marxist in disguise or a moron who doesn't know what they're supporting when supporting a Liberal candidate. A liberal, lower-case, is, I hope, all Americans. We were founded as a liberal country. The word has been bastardized to cover up Marxist beliefs. They used to be called progressives, but that apparently didn't do the trick for them, so Liberal became the name. However, they have never been liberal. They've been Marxists all along relying on fooling us to believe that what they propose is and always has been the epitome of "American". Stealing from the rich to give to the poor with the hand of the Federal government, has NEVER been American. But it's always been Liberal. So, Townie, you tell me. Are you or aren't you an American. Sure, you're a citizen. But are you a liberal American or a American-Liberal? Only one is close to a true American. The other is hardly better than a Frenchman. Now you're saying I'm stupid too. You're right, I am stupid. I am an American but I do like french fries. However, french fries are from Belgium so I'm not as stupid as I may appear. I do believe that while Bush was president and when he started his little wars that Cheney and friends profited from the wars. Of course, I'm Townie and I don't have the time, patience or hate that conservatives have to dig up solid facts. Besides, you'd tell me that I got it from a bumper sticker.
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HoneyBadger
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HoneyBadger don't give a shit.
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Post by HoneyBadger on Mar 25, 2011 14:51:51 GMT -5
I must say this about Obama he has done something no other President before him did , he declared war on a country that in NO WAY THREATENED us and he did it without the approval of the Congress if Bush did that they would have hung him for treason . The US Constitution states the President can not start any war without Congress voting on it first even Roosevelt had to wait till Congress gave the OK to go war with Japan after they attacked our country FIRST , and Lybia did nothing but try to quash a rebellion . I am not saying he was wrong but the laws are there for a reason and he purposely broke them , to see if he could get away with it . How much more of his lack of respect for this country and our Constitution how long are we to tolerate this before we say ENOUGH .And the worse part is with our judgment in the past by backing the wrong horse ,why would we think the rebels will put a stable person to run that country we must stop interfering with the world and maybe worry about our own Country .Benjamin Harrison said these words and we still haven't learned from them "WE AS AMERICANS HAVE NO COMMISSION FROM GOD TO POLICE THE WORLD " . I'm annoyed with Obama myself over this Libya deal but be honest about Iraq please. Iraq posed absolutely no threat whatsoever to the U.S. but Bush - using lies and bullshit - started a freaking war. This recent trouble started in Egypt, spread to Libya and is going on to Syria and other countries. No way is Obama going to be able to screw up more than he's done so far. I say let them kill each other and then we can take on the winners because they're the ones we'll have to fear.
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Post by orrtannaoracle on Mar 26, 2011 5:17:39 GMT -5
wow that is some deep stuff, I don't even know where to start my rebuttal. Liberalism is a new concept, you are right. But that is just if you are looking at it as a concept that began with Marx. This county, though was founded on some concepts that are looked at now a days as 'liberal"becaue you can tie them into what marx was getting at with his phisosophy. Our country was actually founded on masonic philosophty, which you Mr. C. should be familiar with since it is considered a libertarian phosophy. Long before they founded our country, they created a "brotherhood of equality". The first ever democracies were within Mason lodges where all members had an equal vote in choosing representatives. Without delving deeper into their philosophies, im just gonna say the "every man for himself" "may the best ideas of the best man make HIM prosper" actually deviate from this philosophy. the Ideals of capitalism were founded in this country within our country's lifetime. The every man should be treated as an equal philosophy came waaaay before that. However, it is capitalism that is the tool to guarantee liberty, independence and freedom. They knew that if man was able to earn as much as he was willing to strive for, he would truly be without the need for government. Liberalism, as we know it today, has known that and, therefore, has created programs that would create dependency on government. They have also punished success with out tax (sic) system... More on this later. Gene and I are going to get Chinese food. I hope your food went down better than your various screeds about what's wrong with the good old USofA did with me after I read this disjointed collection of neo-con claptrap. You sound as if you just fell out of Rushbo's jockey shorts, or perhaps they were Beck's? There have been times in this nation's history that you, and those vaunted political opinionators whose litany you adhere to, would have been subjected to sedition statutes, if not treason. Quite frankly, we ought to bring them back. Openly stating that the GOP's primary political goal is to defeat BHO in 2012 certainly does a lot to solve the nation's current problems, doesn't it? Oh, those millions of laid-off, fired or underemployed workers - don't worry, we'll restore jobs if we make sure we cut the nation's revenues. Just trust us. Anyone who thought Pat Toomey was the answer will soon find out that he doesn't give a spit about your employment, only the GOP's control over our lives through statutes such as the Patriot Act interest that stooge. Capitalism is the answer, eh? The Street did the country so proud back in 2007 -08, right? Unfettered greed with no interest at all in the possible results on the nation's economy - and then they cried to the Feds for fiscal assistance when their schemes blew up. That's capitalism? BTW: look at how much $$$ was committed by the Feds for that program before BHO took office. Oh, I forgot - the new neo-con mantra is that Shrub and his cronies didn't really have the correct view of life either so they didn't really represent the "true" GOP party. "They have also punished success with out (sic) tax system..." Gee, I guess that explains why the NY Times yesterday wrote an article detailing why poor, old GE not only completely dodged having to pay any taxes for 2010, the Feds actually owe them $3.2B in credits. Best tax law firm money can buy currently works at GEI'm sure we can all sympathize with those down-trodden executives and shareholders at GE as they waste away in their poverty. Top rate on corporate taxes is 35% - they paid ZERO!!! Capisce? And then there are the poor souls and investors at the various oil companies whose compensation just isn't what it used to be - it's greater! BTW: congratulations on your various spellings of philosophy. You might want to contract out as a ghost writer for Spell Checker when he's run out of words to describe his current state of mind. The Masonic underpinnings of our country? I want to hear your explanation of the Southern Masons who owned slaves and how those politicians stood tall for the equality of all men. No doubt many of them were Masons but their record hardly shines with regard to those who are not white male Protestants. Perhaps your philosophy might swing the day at the G.O. but I wouldn't try it in public where there might be people who haven't been drinking and have some wider experience than you apparently have. This is not an attempt to defend the current administration - they've been proven to be too inexperienced to take on the task. But McCain/Palin is an even scarier thought to me. And some of the GOP 2012 contenders should have their cranial capacity checked to see if any brains remain in there. Newt (Mr. Marital Fidelity) and Santorum (I really need some gainful employment)? C'mon, they're among the best you've got? I wouldn't elect Sen. Rick to be my garbage man - wait a minute, I withdraw that statement. He's been shoveling so much crap since he appeared he's got more than enough experience to drive a truck for Waste Management.
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